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Thread: Schuberth Helmet Question

  1. #1
    http://www.rd400racer.com rd400racer's Avatar
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    Schuberth Helmet Question

    Yesterday I bought a like new Concept (C1?) from an older gentleman that developed arthritis and had to quit riding before he even got to use it.

    Coming to work this morning was my first time to wear it, and it fogged up to almost a scary level. Temp was 25 when I left the house.

    Now I'm not new to riding by any stretch and I've never had a helmet fog up this bad. I did all the tricks to de-fog and nothing worked. I really like this helmet but I have to find a cure to this fogging.

    By the way, the helmet that it is replacing in an Arai RX7-7, basically a racing helmet. If it even came close to fogging a simple 1/8" lift of the shield cured it right away. This didn't work on the Schuberth.
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    I've worn a modular Concept 2 for the past few years & it fogs like crazy-I have to constantly pull out the visor to air the back side or in a rain am wiping down the exterior with a glove. I'm hoping for a new C3 with pinlock visor. I've tried diving goggle drops but do not last long.

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    http://www.rd400racer.com rd400racer's Avatar
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    Well that sure isn't what I wanted to hear!

    So you're saying that you vented by utilizing the top (push out on each side) vent? My Arai doesn't have that so I didn't even try that this morning.

    I did loads of research on this helmet and it came off like the best thing since sliced bread. But if I can't see when I ride then it is basically a high dollar paperweight.
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    Nuckin' Futs! tonyfr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kantuckid View Post
    I'm hoping for a new C3 with pinlock visor. I've tried diving goggle drops but do not last long.
    I have a C3 with the pinlock. It was 30 degrees this morning and it fogged up.
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    Check out this comparison it may save you a headache. http://www.webbikeworld.com/r2/motor...on-methods.htm

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    I bought a Schuberth Concept about ten years ago. I don't know which version it is. The date of of manufacture printed in the lining reads 06/01. Fogging was only one of the problems. Within a year, the sunvisor stopped retracting back up into the top of the helmet when using the lever. About another year after that, the sunvisor quit flipping down at all. I stopped wearing it within the next year since the lining had worn so badly it didn't fit properly anymore. It's been sitting in the closet since.

    I replaced it with an HJC that cost less than half of the price of the Schuberth, and it was functionally a better helmet.

    Perhaps the new Schuberth is better quality than the model I purchased, but if I am going to pay premium dollar for a modular helmet now, it's going to be a Shoei . I wouldn't even consider a Schuberth. As the saying goes "you never get a second chance to make a first impression".

  7. #7
    A bozo on the bus deilenberger's Avatar
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    There is no magic about fogging.. it will happen if it's humid enough and cold enough and you close a helmet up tight.

    The C1 and C2 shields came with a factory applied anti-fog coating that I found worked exceptionally well. It would fog under severe conditions, but in general I never found it a big problem. If it did fog, moving the shield to the "City" position cleared it. If you're riding an RT - the lack of moving air over the helmet limits the amount of air moving through the helmet via the vent system. In that case, it's almost mandatory to use the city position at low temperatures to keep fogging from occurring.

    kantuckid - putting aftermarket anti-fog drops on the inside of the shield in all likelihood has reduced the efficacy of the factory applied coating, in other words - made it worse. The coating is purposely porous - and the aftermarket coating has likely sealed off the pores of the coating.

    Schuberth C1 and C2 shields originally were quite long lasting. The outer surface has a hard coating on it that resists hazing from cleaning the bugs off. The inner anti-fog coating seemed long lasting and effective. It seems as if something changed as the years went by, and the later C1 and C2 shields experienced a problem with the coating starting to peal off the inside surface of the shield. Schuberth would warranty the shield if this happened and you contacted them. No purchase proof was ever asked for, and even when they had no representation in the US, the German office would send a replacement out at no cost to me.

    The C3 shield is different and uses the "pinlock" anti-fog insert. This is an insert used by many manufacturers - and while the size may be specific to the helmet, the coating is the same as other manufacturers use. Again - closed up tight in very wet weather - the amount of moisture in the helmet (combined with warm breath) is going to be a problem, especially if you're behind a large windshield, or moving slowly - so no air is venting through the helmet. No magic - let more air get to the helmet and it will clear up.

    Webbikeworld has done tests of various aftermarket fogging cures - and I've tried some of their top rated ones on glasses I wear when riding. They seem to work - for a while - but the overall effectiveness decreases as humidity increases and airflow decreases. Like I said - no magic.

    All of the anti-fog coatings work by absorbing moisture, and when the moist air is in contact with the moisture saturated coating, it won't cause fog (think about using shaving cream on a foggy mirror in the bathroom when shaving.. same idea.) Some airborne moisture may condense out of the humid air causing droplets of water to form on the inside of the helmet. I know of nothing that can prevent this from happening... no coating, no magic. When something reaches the saturation point this is what happens.

    One anti-fog scheme that completely eliminated fogging was pioneered by BMW/Schuberth for the System-II BMW helmet. It had a heated faceshield, with two layers of plastic bonded together with super fine heating wires between the two layers. This did prevent fog. Unfortunately - the heating was localized and caused the plastic to expand where the wires were - causing distortion that was almost as annoying as fogging. Like I said - no magic.

    One solution that may work is snowmobile face shields - these are made with two layers of plastic separated by a sealed airspace. The insulation provided by the air space allows the outer layer to be as cold as it wants, while the inner layer is heated to the ambient temperature in the helmet (usually around body temperature), preventing it from fogging. I have heard of motorcyclists using this sort of shield with some success. The PinLoc design is supposed to incorporate the same idea, and to some extent it does, but the air layer is much thinner (and less effective insulation) then the snowmobile design.

    ducster - you might drag your Concept out of the closet and send it to Schuberth in California. Before I got my C3 this spring (making the 6th Schuberth I've owned) I sent my C2 to them, the sunshield had stopped working. At no cost to me except the shipping to them, I received the helmet back in about a week looking like brand new. The sunshield worked again, it had a new visor installed, a new liner and a new neck-collar. All at no cost whatsoever.

    That's the impression I've had of Schuberth - they are a company that stands behind their product, no fuss, no arguments - they just try to make it right. You might give it a try, most it will cost you is shipping the helmet to them.

    rd400racer - YMMV, but I think that any helmet will fog up if there isn't enough airflow over and through it it - it almost sounds as if either you're on a different (and better protected) bike then the one you rode with the Arai helmet, or you didn't open the Schuberth to the city position (one click forward on each pivot point), or the shield is old and the coating is somehow no longer effective.

    If the city position doesn't cure the problem for you, then I'd try a new shield. You can find them for a reasonable price on Ebay, or if you asked Schuberth nicely, bet they'd send you one.

    You can also try washing the shield you have now. I used to do this periodically: Luke warm to cool water with liquid hand soap, applied with a gentle rubbing motion with my fingers - then a really careful rinse. Shake any remaining water off (do NOT rub it - the coating will be very soft,) and give the inner coating time to dry out and harden up in a warm dry location. This usually restored the anti-fog effectiveness to about what a new shield provides. Since we don't know how the former owner of your helmet treated it - it may still be best to start anew with a replacement shield.

    If you are in/near NJ and want to visit, I have a pile of C1/C2 shields and I'm sure we could dig out a good working one (might have a scratch, I hate scratches and usually would replace the shield immediately..) Since you mentioned 25F this AM, I'm guessing you're somewhat north or northwest of me.. (it was only about 38F when I went out on the bike this AM..)

    Good luck, and remember - despite what the hawker at the motorcycle show with the magic goat-snot anti-fog crap says - there is no magic to this. Airflow is vital.

    One additional thought - I just remembered - the C1/C2 helmets had a small sliding thingie inside the chinpiece, that directed air from the chin vent either straight at your nose, OR up the inside surface of the shield. This DOES make a big difference.. make sure it's blowing up the surface of the shield.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by tonyfr View Post
    I have a C3 with the pinlock. It was 30 degrees this morning and it fogged up.
    Don't tell my wife, she already wonders whats "wrong" with my pretty helmet.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by ducster View Post
    I bought a Schuberth Concept about ten years ago. I don't know which version it is. The date of of manufacture printed in the lining reads 06/01. Fogging was only one of the problems. Within a year, the sunvisor stopped retracting back up into the top of the helmet when using the lever. About another year after that, the sunvisor quit flipping down at all. I stopped wearing it within the next year since the lining had worn so badly it didn't fit properly anymore. It's been sitting in the closet since.

    I replaced it with an HJC that cost less than half of the price of the Schuberth, and it was functionally a better helmet.

    Perhaps the new Schuberth is better quality than the model I purchased, but if I am going to pay premium dollar for a modular helmet now, it's going to be a Shoei . I wouldn't even consider a Schuberth. As the saying goes "you never get a second chance to make a first impression".
    Mine is a C2 & dated 8/02 & the lining looks nearly new & nothing has ever failed. By far the best helmet I've ever owned.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by kantuckid View Post
    Mine is a C2 & dated 8/02 & the lining looks nearly new & nothing has ever failed. By far the best helmet I've ever owned.

    I am glad you are happy with your Helmet. I found the Schuberth helmet I got to be of poor build quality. I have purchased several helmets over the years, and of all them, I consider the one Schuberth I bought to be the least bang for the buck.YMMV.

    I found this previous post of yours in this thread interesting:
    "I've worn a modular Concept 2 for the past few years & it fogs like crazy-I have to constantly pull out the visor to air the back side or in a rain am wiping down the exterior with a glove. I'm hoping for a new C3 with pinlock visor. I've tried diving goggle drops but do not last long."

    So even though it has a big fogging problem, so did mine btw, you still consider it to be the best helmet you have ever owned.

    I have a full face Scorpion helmet that I have been using for the last couple of years that has an anti fog coating on the shield. It does not fog up.

  11. #11
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    On my C3 I took some 1inch diameter furniture pads and installed them in the visor hinge. I am now able to hold open the visor a tiny bit at any speed, no fog issues
    FYI I never installed the pin lock

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by rd400racer View Post
    Well that sure isn't what I wanted to hear!

    So you're saying that you vented by utilizing the top (push out on each side) vent? My Arai doesn't have that so I didn't even try that this morning.

    I did loads of research on this helmet and it came off like the best thing since sliced bread. But if I can't see when I ride then it is basically a high dollar paperweight.
    On my C2 Concept , you raise the visor slightly and insert your finger & pull outward and that position allows air to come under the lower edge & de-fog the single visor lens-problem is, that at hwy speeds the air pressure pushes it back in quickly. I've actually been tempted to keep something like a piece of foam rubber in my pocket and "clamp it in the lower edge against the chin bar to allow more air at times. Apparently the Germans decided too much air is not good, nor is de-fogging that way?

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