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Thread: AAA Warning on Ethanol

  1. #61
    Norm Norms 427's Avatar
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    No, Fox News and Star Tribune do not manufacture cars ... their job is to research, compile, and report the news.

    Thank goodness that E10 will still be available for the foreseeable future and motorists will have a choice between E10 and E15.

    Happy new year to all.

    Norm
    Last edited by Norms 427; 12-26-2012 at 04:20 PM.
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  2. #62
    Registered User 36654's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikerfish1100 View Post
    dude. no manufacturer publishes their own news reports without them going out thru a news outlet. you're old enough to have a license, so you should be old enough to understand that. so even tho that paper quotes Ford and Toyota directly, it's still not good enough for ya?

    So i gotta ask- are you trying to be difficult on this, are you a shill for the "renewable energy" lobby, or are you just plain dense?

    really, i apologize for being blunt (and flirting with insulting), but your protests about credibility of source of info have gone from "questioning" to just plain "obstinate".
    You are trying to make a point about what manufacturers said and will do. I say show me where they make that statement about warranty coverage that makes any difference. News reports have nothing to do with warranties. When their websites show the disclaimer, then it might mean something.

    I apologize for the earlier spelling mistakes, I was rushing out the door to catch the first showing of Les Miserable at my local theatre.
    Last edited by 36654; 12-26-2012 at 09:53 PM.
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  3. #63
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    manufacturers' websites do not list warrany policies or plans. News outlets have reported statements from them as regarding warranty information as it relates to E15.
    If that's not good enough for ya, well... do what you want, think what you want. it's your vehicles, & your money.

    As far as E10... yeah, that stuff sucks too. The corn lobby for Agri-business has sold us all a bill of goods on that product as well.
    Ride Safe, Ride Lots

  4. #64
    Registered User 36654's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikerfish1100 View Post
    manufacturers' websites do not list warrany policies or plans. News outlets have reported statements from them as regarding warranty information as it relates to E15.
    If that's not good enough for ya, well... do what you want, think what you want. it's your vehicles, & your money.

    As far as E10... yeah, that stuff sucks too. The corn lobby for Agri-business has sold us all a bill of goods on that product as well.
    http://media.gm.com/media/us/en/gm/news.html

    http://media.ford.com/

    http://media.chrysler.com/homepage.d...0922556F?mid=1

    http://pressroom.toyota.com/corporate/releases/

    http://www.hondanews.com/

    http://blog.alliance-renault-nissan..../press-release

    http://media.vw.com/homepage.do;jses...DFF64802617EC9

    https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/press.../startpage.htm

    http://media.daimler.com/
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  5. #65
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    so all those links managed to show is that they don't have statements about ethanol compatability and warranty status on their websites.
    Ride Safe, Ride Lots

  6. #66
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    I guess everyone feels different about E10. As I quote from an earlier reply, "Thank goodness that E10 will still be available for the foreseeable future."

    I wish E15 AND E10 were eliminated from the market, or at least marketed for what it is and really costs, without a bunch of government subsidies just to make it cost competitive. I chuckle sarcastically everytime I hear the local commercials for Ethanol fuels claiming to reduce our cost at the pump by up to $1 per gallon! What a huge line of BS!

  7. #67
    Norm Norms 427's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ANDYVH View Post
    I guess everyone feels different about E10. As I quote from an earlier reply, "Thank goodness that E10 will still be available for the foreseeable future."

    I wish E15 AND E10 were eliminated from the market, or at least marketed for what it is and really costs, without a bunch of government subsidies just to make it cost competitive. I chuckle sarcastically everytime I hear the local commercials for Ethanol fuels claiming to reduce our cost at the pump by up to $1 per gallon! What a huge line of BS!
    +1

    I believe that history, given the advantage of hindsight that comes with time, will regard ethanol blended gasoline as a well-intentioned, but, a misguided policy of the US government. It won't be the first time that our government has made a mistake nor will it be the last.

    I'm stuck with E10 but I won't be using E15 when or if it arrives in my neighborhood Chevron gas pumps.

    Happy new year.

    Norm
    Now: '12 R1200RT Midnight Blue Metallic / '11 Ural Patrol 2WD ridden to Alaska / '09 KLR 650 / '05 HD Heritage Softail / '08 Harley Sportster 1200C / '85 Yamaha VMax bought new. I wasn't ready to say goodbye: www.shaunlunt.typepad.com

  8. #68
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    Wow, I started this thread and it has certainly grown to a wonderful source of information. There are a few heated rebuttals but most of the smoke has cleared.

    Thank you. Now I am a little more informed for the future.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikerfish1100 View Post
    so all those links managed to show is that they don't have statements about ethanol compatability and warranty status on their websites.
    Regarding fuels & warranty,it is clearly stated in the owners manual for my new BMW car,so no mystery there whatsoever.

  10. #70
    X-Troller hexst's Avatar
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    People who would put e15 in their vehicle that was not designed for it are the same twits that would try diesel in their gas car. e15 is a flex fuel to be used in flex fuel vehicles.
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  11. #71
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    Mercury Marine Tests in 2011 were Catastrophic

    After reading about the Mercury Marine outboard motor tests, you will never see me using 15% ethanol in anything I own!


    http://science.house.gov/sites/repub...11_Hilbert.pdf
    Skidgillen

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  12. #72
    Registered User 36654's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidgillen View Post
    After reading about the Mercury Marine outboard motor tests, you will never see me using 15% ethanol in anything I own!


    http://science.house.gov/sites/repub...11_Hilbert.pdf
    What was your issue with the companion report from Volvo Penta?

    http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy12osti/52577.pdf

    Perhaps, the results aren't to your liking?
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  13. #73
    Registered User 36654's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ANDYVH View Post
    I guess everyone feels different about E10. As I quote from an earlier reply, "Thank goodness that E10 will still be available for the foreseeable future."

    I wish E15 AND E10 were eliminated from the market, or at least marketed for what it is and really costs, without a bunch of government subsidies just to make it cost competitive. I chuckle sarcastically everytime I hear the local commercials for Ethanol fuels claiming to reduce our cost at the pump by up to $1 per gallon! What a huge line of BS!
    Whether it's the BLM subsidizing petroleum and NG production on federal lands or the USDA using ethanol as crop insurance, Chevron/Texaco, Exxon, Range resources, Chesapeake, Cargill and ADM will always get their way. Will it change prices? Not really. US produced oil and NG will go to the market that pays the highest price. Exchange rates and world wide economic conditions will determine the price.

    One can rail and complain about it all they want, but be warned that most of the pols raising this issue are just looking for a hot button topic that they can ride while making money on all sides of the issue. Sadly, the AMA have fallen for this bait and is now just a sad little tool.
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  14. #74
    Registered User rxcrider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 36654 View Post
    We had one of those old B's from the late 1930's that you could start with a hand wheel. Since the tractor didn't have a 3-point hitch it was pretty worthless, but tires were the only wear items. The air cleaner was a wad of wire screen at the end of an intake tube.

    New gas, old gas, even dirty gas, it really didn't matter. You poured it in and it burned. Once enough crap went thru the fuel system, you dropped the glass bowls on the fuel filter and cleaned them. These products were made for a world before our current pristine fuel standards......when "whatever you were lucky enough to get was good enough".

    So, in a world with folks in a tizzy about E10 or E15 in their lawn mower or Evinrude, I can only chuckle.
    Keep chuckling and hand the cash to your dealer. That 1930s tractor didn't meet current emissions standards. It ran pig rich and could run on almost anything because of it. Carbureted power equipment is hit harder by ethanol than almost any other product. Fuel used for emissions testing burns similar to straight gasoline. It is a constant balancing act to tune an engine to meet emissions standards on cert fuel while keeping it running well on E10. Richening up the mixture to use E15 will cause some engines to fail emissions standards. Running an engine designed for a maximum of E10 on E15 may cause performance problems and possibly even engine damage. Switching to a colder plug may help, but you can't recommend that unless you choose to certify your engine with both spark plugs. EPA and CARB regulations have also eliminated the adjustments from carburetors. Even the tamper resistant caps that could be pried off the adjustment screws are a thing of the past. Go ahead and use E15 in your power equipment. Even if you take the proper precautions to prevent fuel decomposition and water contamination, running an engine on E15 that wasn't designed for it may cause damage. When that day comes, keep on chuckling while you write the check for repairs or parts. Moving forward, closed loop fuel injection systems could cure this, but it won't me cheap. Do you know anyone who wants to pay $1000 for a consumer walk behind mower.

    There is an alternative, but the politicians won't touch it. If ethanol wasn't such a politically charged item, we could scrap it and run a higher percentage of isobutanol while having equivalent performance to E10. Converting ethanol plants into isobutanol plants is feasible and we'd have a better fuel supply in the country.

  15. #75
    Registered User 36654's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rxcrider View Post
    Keep chuckling and hand the cash to your dealer. That 1930s tractor didn't meet current emissions standards. It ran pig rich and could run on almost anything because of it. Carbureted power equipment is hit harder by ethanol than almost any other product. Fuel used for emissions testing burns similar to straight gasoline. It is a constant balancing act to tune an engine to meet emissions standards on cert fuel while keeping it running well on E10. Richening up the mixture to use E15 will cause some engines to fail emissions standards. Running an engine designed for a maximum of E10 on E15 may cause performance problems and possibly even engine damage. Switching to a colder plug may help, but you can't recommend that unless you choose to certify your engine with both spark plugs. EPA and CARB regulations have also eliminated the adjustments from carburetors. Even the tamper resistant caps that could be pried off the adjustment screws are a thing of the past. Go ahead and use E15 in your power equipment. Even if you take the proper precautions to prevent fuel decomposition and water contamination, running an engine on E15 that wasn't designed for it may cause damage. When that day comes, keep on chuckling while you write the check for repairs or parts. Moving forward, closed loop fuel injection systems could cure this, but it won't me cheap. Do you know anyone who wants to pay $1000 for a consumer walk behind mower.

    There is an alternative, but the politicians won't touch it. If ethanol wasn't such a politically charged item, we could scrap it and run a higher percentage of isobutanol while having equivalent performance to E10. Converting ethanol plants into isobutanol plants is feasible and we'd have a better fuel supply in the country.
    1) Have you ever heard the Nursery Tale of Chicken Little.

    2) Where do you think the money for the development of Isobutanol came from?

    http://cfpub.epa.gov/ncer_abstracts/.../8958/report/0

    DOE ARPA-E

    US Air Force & Navy alternate fuel programs

    Even the bad old USDA

    Just Google GEVO or BioFuel and you'll find lots of info.

    Isobutanol appears to be the most promising of the BioFuel's.
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