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Thread: AAA Warning on Ethanol

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    AAA Warning on Ethanol

    I listen to NPR while at work and AAA is now warning motorists that the shift from E10 (10%) to E15(15%) ethanol will damage our vehicles and void warranties. The higher percentage of ethanol will damage fuel systems over time.
    The members of MOA are far better informed than I am about our bike mechanical systems. What are the facts on ethanol on BMW fuel systems???
    Is this a serious pending problem that we are looking at???
    Thank you all in advance. I have learned so very much reading the threads on this forum.

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    Ethanol

    E10 reeked havoc on my 2007 outboard motor that was supposedly designed to use ethanol. Also lawn mowers, chain saws and basically any gas engine you don't use almost daily.

    Quote Originally Posted by sickticket View Post
    I listen to NPR while at work and AAA is now warning motorists that the shift from E10 (10%) to E15(15%) ethanol will damage our vehicles and void warranties. The higher percentage of ethanol will damage fuel systems over time.
    The members of MOA are far better informed than I am about our bike mechanical systems. What are the facts on ethanol on BMW fuel systems???
    Is this a serious pending problem that we are looking at???
    Thank you all in advance. I have learned so very much reading the threads on this forum.

  3. #3
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    Link to AAA story

    Here is the link to the ethanol story. It gives more info that I originally typed.

    http://www.npr.org/2012/12/04/166519...ould-hurt-cars

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    R1200RT Artiee's Avatar
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    As I understand it, the E15 blend is not mandatory for every vehicle. It is supposed to be a blend which the driver can select at the pump, just like any other octane rating. AAA's concern is people filling up at a pump with E15 might not be fully informed and could end up putting in a blend of fuel which will damage their car.

    My concern at the moment is how they design the pumps which will dispense the E15 blend. Will any residual fuel in the piping/hoses of the fuel pump be purged after each use or will a residual amount of E15 remain in the lines for the next vehicle which pulls in?

    If a residual amount of E15 remains, that means the E10 blends will be a fraction more the E10. If filling up a large fuel tank, that won't make much difference. However, if filling up a small tank, such as a motorcycle tank, it just might be harmful. Furthermore, If you are only topping off and the E15 isn't purged from the lines after the previous vehicle, the percentage of E15 going into your tank might be more.

    Hopefully, as the EPA rams this harmful fuel down the public's throat, gas stations will retain pumps which don't dispense E15, sort of like stations which sell auto diesel -- not all their pumps have a diesel nozzle.
    Last edited by Artiee; 12-05-2012 at 04:34 PM.
    Experience IS NOT the best teacher! Someone else's experience is the best teacher.

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    That is an interesting thought. I was under the impression that it would be a complete switch from E10 to E15.

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    Registered User lkraus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artiee View Post
    My concern a the moment is how they design the pumps which will dispense the E15 blend. Will any residual fuel in the piping/hoses of the fuel pump be purged after each use or will a residual amount of E15 remain in the lines for the next vehicle which pulls in?
    This came up in earlier discussions. The proposed government "solution" was to require a four gallon minimum purchase to ensure dilution of the E15 left in the hose. This does not help much. Most of the bikes I've owned held less than four gallons total, and even on the RT I occasionally want to top off the tank when the location of the next station is uncertain. My lawnmower can is 2.25 gallon, the chainsaw/trimmer can is one gallon.
    Larry
    2006 R1200RT

  7. #7
    na1g
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    In my area most gas stations have three grades of gasoline and one dispensing hose. As mentioned, the fuel remaining in the hose may dillute the premium or mid-grad you think you are getting and are paying for. (At least the stations with diesel have a separate hose!)

    With the addition of E15, will a station have to install another underground tank? Will E10 simply go away at most stations? Will anyone actually monitor the product being dispensed to ensure it is what it says it is? Will the EPA find more ways to screw up? Will pigs fly?*

    pete

    * With enough thrust pigs fly just fine.

  8. #8
    07 R1200RT BALDTIRES's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by na1g View Post
    In my area most gas stations have three grades of gasoline and one dispensing hose. As mentioned, the fuel remaining in the hose may dillute the premium or mid-grad you think you are getting and are paying for. (At least the stations with diesel have a separate hose!)

    With the addition of E15, will a station have to install another underground tank? Will E10 simply go away at most stations? Will anyone actually monitor the product being dispensed to ensure it is what it says it is? Will the EPA find more ways to screw up? Will pigs fly?*

    pete

    * With enough thrust pigs fly just fine.
    I always use a fuel stabilizer in all my marine engines and have thought about starting the same practice in my bikes and cars.
    Only motorcyclists know why dogs stick their heads out the window.

  9. #9
    Nardowell nardowell's Avatar
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    Ethanol may slowly go away since the price of crude has come down and corn prices have gone up in the last few years. Even with the massive government subsidies, it is unprofitable. Some ethanol plants are filing bankruptcy.

    The farm lobby will have a hard time keeping their ethanol welfare given all the debt reduction talk.

    There is a website where you can go to find out if you have any gas stations in your area that have non ethanol gas. Luckily, I found one near me.

    My car gets 10 to 15% better mileage on non ethanol gas.

    Interesting quote--"We are the only country that burns our food".
    Nardowell
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  10. #10
    Ponch
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    Quote Originally Posted by nardowell View Post
    Ethanol may slowly go away since the price of crude has come down and corn prices have gone up in the last few years. Even with the massive government subsidies, it is unprofitable. Some ethanol plants are filing bankruptcy.

    The farm lobby will have a hard time keeping their ethanol welfare given all the debt reduction talk.

    There is a website where you can go to find out if you have any gas stations in your area that have non ethanol gas. Luckily, I found one near me.

    My car gets 10 to 15% better mileage on non ethanol gas.

    Interesting quote--"We are the only country that burns our food".
    Based on the gas mileage I used to get in Iowa, I would think that the ethanol content was higher than 10%. I get better mileage in AZ and just about anywhere outside of Iowa.
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    Polarbear Polarbear's Avatar
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    Brazil!

    Another country I hear burning Ethanol in larger quantities by far. I think the political link to E Gas has been our biggest mistake and it should have died years ago. Never has been able to live on its own, without subs...Ya'll think its bad around the USA, try California and our CARB folks dishing out regs that are beyond describing! Ugly here. My GSA gets such horrible mpg's here in CA., I get sick thinking about it...and do have very extensive travels on the GSA to prove my point. E Gas and the CARB folks formulate the CA gas to death. NOW, this topic is a politcal one we should wish went elsewhere, but does indeed affect our Beemers and our wallets to a degree we hate so. Its firewater and very hot item these days. Randy

  12. #12
    A bozo on the bus deilenberger's Avatar
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    Since this has no specific Hexhead/Camhead content, it's being moved over to Motorrad where it may see more exposure.

    Hang on.. (and please keep keyboards and hands inside the post while the post is moving - for your safety and protection.. )
    Don Eilenberger http://www.eilenberger.net
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  13. #13
    Lucky motorradmike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deilenberger View Post

    Hang on.. (and please keep keyboards and hands inside the post while the post is moving - for your safety and protection.. )
    THAT was funny.

    Mike Marr
    1978 Yamaha XS750 (Needs rings), 1996 BMW R1100RS, 2004 Honda CRF230F

  14. #14
    Polarbear Polarbear's Avatar
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    I smile too:)

    I like the humor, which is surely needed more often. I'd rather laugh anyday, vs some issues that seem to need squeezed out occasionally. Its all in fun,yes? My bikes are my last frontier of staying sane. Randy

  15. #15
    Registered User rickyd's Avatar
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    It sounds to me a bit like the approval or non-approval of the the E15 may be political in some way as much as technical. BMW, Benz, and VW don't approve but Porsche does? How is it that the fuel system components of cars (and bikes) can survive 10% ethanol but will fail at 15%???
    Rick

    '06 BMW R1200RT
    '74 Moto-Guzzi 850-T

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