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Thread: 96 r1100r failed input shaft splines ?

  1. #16
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    FD gear oil

    Quote Originally Posted by m_stock10506 View Post
    First, if you think the final drive is making growling/grinding noise - have you drained the FD gear oil and examined the oil and the drain plug?

    If this exam shows more than just grey paste on the magnet, you may have a FD big bearing that is starting to fail. You can check out two videos that show disassembly of the final drive. The long version also shows reassembly and measuring preload for shims.

    Final Drive Disassembly (short version):
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8_4l...eature=related

    Final Drive Rebuild (long version):
    http://www.bmwlt.com/uploads/lt_final_drive_rebuild.wmv - don't be concerned with the weird images at the very beginning of the video - who knows why they are there...
    Final drive gear oil looked good when drained. Just some grey paste on the magnet as you said.

    Is it OK for me to leave the brake disk attached to the final drive and remove the final drive with it attached ? I was just reading about the ABS spacing setting and that seems worth not messing with if I can avoid it.

  2. #17
    . AntonLargiader's Avatar
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    If you're not doing anything with the FD, there's no reason to take the rotor off.
    Anton Largiader 72724
    largiader.com bmwra.org

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by AntonLargiader View Post
    If you're not doing anything with the FD, there's no reason to take the rotor off.
    Thanks Anton ! OK that's good. I am hopeful FD is indeed OK.

  4. #19
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    Update - Input shaft OK - U-join & Drive shaft next ?

    OK here is where I stand right now:

    - Brake caliper & rear wheel are off
    - Final drive gear oil is drained
    - Starter is off

    The good:
    - Final drive oil looked clean - just some fine grey gunk on magnet
    - Transmission input shaft looks good and does not rotate at all when the rear wheel is in gear and rotating. I assume this means my input shaft splines are fine and the problem is downstream from clutch/transmission input.

    So next seems to be to take off the final drive and look at the U-joint. I'm a little nervous about heating up and removing the lock nut and pivot pins. How do I know I have heated them sufficiently ? How much force should I be using ?
    Thanks all for your suggestions and help so far !!!

  5. #20
    Day Dreaming ... happy wanderer's Avatar
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    If you don't have one of these do yourself a favour and head over to Harbour Freight and pick one up. http://www.harborfreight.com/micro-torch-60645.html
    They work much better than a heat gun for pin point heating and are refillable with butane. Used to heat any bolts that have loctite on them especially when the area has painted surfaces around the bolts. Heat the center for about 2 minutes. A bit more for larger bolts. This will soften the loctite enough to get them out easily and without galling threads. Do not force the bolts to turn out. Use more heat if they don't turn easily once you get the initial torque off them.
    MJM - BeeCeeBeemers Motorcycle Club Vancouver B.C.
    '81 R80G/S, '82 R100RS, '00 R1100RT

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by happy wanderer View Post
    If you don't have one of these do yourself a favour and head over to Harbour Freight and pick one up. http://www.harborfreight.com/micro-torch-60645.html
    They work much better than a heat gun for pin point heating and are refillable with butane. Used to heat any bolts that have loctite on them especially when the area has painted surfaces around the bolts. Heat the center for about 2 minutes. A bit more for larger bolts. This will soften the loctite enough to get them out easily and without galling threads. Do not force the bolts to turn out. Use more heat if they don't turn easily once you get the initial torque off them.
    Thanks Happy - Yes I do have one (for creme brulee !) and could try. Could I also use the heat gun with the concentrator tip ? If I do what temperature should I set the heat gun on ? Maximum ?

  7. #22
    Day Dreaming ... happy wanderer's Avatar
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    Problem with a heat gun there is the painted surface on the drive shaft tunnel all around your work area. I like the torch best. Accurate and concentrated heat from the center out. Just what you want.
    MJM - BeeCeeBeemers Motorcycle Club Vancouver B.C.
    '81 R80G/S, '82 R100RS, '00 R1100RT

  8. #23
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    Looking good... Need to keep going

    Well the final drive is now off.

    FYI - I tried to use the torch but had trouble getting things hot enough. Perhaps mine is too weak. Used Ryobi $49 heat gun with concentrator tip and at full power. Still had to heat the pins much more than expected to get them loose without too much effort. Perhaps 5min at close range aiming at center of pins. Everything was real toasty.

    Everything inside looks pretty good (unfortunately because it means I am not done yet). Splines look good on final drive and on the U-joint. U-joint itself is fine. Outer splines on U-joint and lower driveshaft are good.
    As you can see in photos below I also have the JL paralever bronze bushings installed on this bike. Lube looked a bit messy and there was a neat pile of congealed "gunk" sitting at the bottom of the swing arm.

    When I put the U-joint back on the shaft it feels fine. With some force I can still rotate the drive shaft (bike in gear) therefore the issue is further up the drive shaft. It does not make much noise when I turn it - it now does feel like a broken bond on the rubber of the upper driveshaft.
    I guess I just need to keep going ! That will be for next weekend, however...

    Any comments or questions based on the photos below ? Any input or comment appreciated. Thanks again for all the help. I am learning a lot !
    Photo 1: General view into the swingarm after removing final drive. Notice the lube gunk.
    Photo 2: Universal joint upper splines that fit into drive shaft
    Photo 3: Close-up of lower driveshaft splines
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by jchildress; 07-29-2013 at 06:52 AM.

  9. #24
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    More photos

    3 more photos.
    Photo 1: U-joint lower splines that mate to final drive
    Photo 2: Left and right pivot pins immediately after removal (these have aftermarket JL paralever bronze bushings installed).
    Photo 3: Final drive shaft splines

    Any advice on how to most easily remove the drive shaft would be greatly appreciated. I will follow my Clymer manual as my main guide.

    One thing that worries me is the amount of oil that I found in the lower rubber boot. About 2-3 tablespoons. Smells the same as the oil I drained from the final drive. Is that something I should worry about ? Did it come from the FD or could it have come from the transmission ?
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by jchildress; 07-29-2013 at 02:34 AM.

  10. #25
    Benchwrenching PGlaves's Avatar
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    Just remove the swingarm - same procedure for the pivots as for the final drive pivots. Get a bigger torch. I use the screw-on type for a 14.3 oz long skinny propane bottle with the flame directed directly into the hex sockets on the fixed and movable pivot pins.

    Then pop the driveshaft off the transmission output shaft. It is spring clipped on a groove in the shaft so a little prying will be needed.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
    "The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution." - Bertrand Russell
    http://www.bigbend.net/users/glaves

  11. #26
    Benchwrenching PGlaves's Avatar
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    If the rubber bond is broken you can see it. Look of the swingarm while turning the back half of the shaft. Look at the inner tube and outer tube on the front hakf of the shaft. You will see the inner splined tube turning and probably see the outer (larger) tube not turning. Broken bond confirmed.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
    "The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution." - Bertrand Russell
    http://www.bigbend.net/users/glaves

  12. #27
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    Just wondering, since I'm at a similar point with my 04 R1150RT, can you remove the swing arm without removing the final drive first? (i.e with the final drive yet attached)
    04 R1150RT

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by mhuf View Post
    Just wondering, since I'm at a similar point with my 04 R1150RT, can you remove the swing arm without removing the final drive first? (i.e with the final drive yet attached)
    Yes, BUT you can't put it back together. You will never get the two halves of the driveshaft back together with the final drive on the swingarm. The other problem is that with the parts together off the bike, holding things in place applying enough torque to remove the pivot pins would be very difficult.

    I would not recommend this approach. It will be a lot more work in the long run.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
    "The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution." - Bertrand Russell
    http://www.bigbend.net/users/glaves

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by PGlaves View Post
    Yes, BUT you can't put it back together. You will never get the two halves of the driveshaft back together with the final drive on the swingarm. The other problem is that with the parts together off the bike, holding things in place applying enough torque to remove the pivot pins would be very difficult.

    I would not recommend this approach. It will be a lot more work in the long run.
    Thank you Paul. Probably best to take a look at the U-joint anyway ..right? I believe they are recommended to be replaced at 40K? and I'm at 38K
    04 R1150RT

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by PGlaves View Post
    If the rubber bond is broken you can see it. Look of the swingarm while turning the back half of the shaft. Look at the inner tube and outer tube on the front hakf of the shaft. You will see the inner splined tube turning and probably see the outer (larger) tube not turning. Broken bond confirmed.
    Thanks Paul. You mean I can do this before I remove the swing arm ? Sorry I am traveling right now so cannot take a look immediately to confirm.

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