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Thread: 96 r1100r failed input shaft splines ?

  1. #1
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    Unhappy 96 r1100r failed input shaft splines ?

    Hello - bad weekend for my 96 r1100r: Lost power to the wheels suddenly - No power in any gear, engine sounded normal. Can release the clutch in any gear while stationary and the engine will not stall.

    Towed the bike home (close by thankfully). On the center stand with rear wheel off the ground, could put the bike in gear and release the clutch, rear wheel spins very gently and can hear a distinct low-frequency, metallic growl.
    Peaked into the drive shaft rear rubber boot and about 1 tablespoon of fluid came out. But no rubber bits anywhere, inside of boot looked very clean.

    Bike has 50K miles - Received rebuilt M94 transmission @33K miles (2.5 years ago) after my transmission started to skip in 2nd gear. New clutch, splines lubed. Spent $3K then...

    I am thinking this is the dreaded failure of the input shaft splines. Really don't want to spend another $3K on this..... Any input or suggestions ?

    Bike is in great shape otherwise... Any advice appreciated.

  2. #2
    Benchwrenching PGlaves's Avatar
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    Well it is one of three things:

    1. Clutch hub/input shaft splines.
    2. Driveshaft universal joint.
    3. Broken bond on the rubber in the driveshaft.

    Usually 1 makes a grinding sound.
    Usually 2 makes a banging clanging sound
    I don't know what 3 sounds like but would expect a squeak at most.

    I wouldn't expect a U joint failure at such low miles, but then again I wouldn't expect a spline failure after only 17K miles since the transmission was installed unless the new transmission shaft mated to a significantly worn clutch hub spline or wasn't lubricated.

    Alignment of the tranny case to the engine case might be an issue. More likely is a bent clutch housing (flywheel). These things can be bent by ham-hands when removing or installing a clutch. Then they wobble and quickly wear the splines. They need to be checked for runout.

    There is no good repair short of a new clutch disk and new transmission input shaft, and clutch housing if yours is bent. Hope it is because at least that is fixable short of a skilled machinist.
    Last edited by PGlaves; 11-27-2012 at 03:31 PM.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
    "The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution." - Bertrand Russell
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  3. #3
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    Thanks Paul,

    Definitely no banging clanging sound -
    And I believe my check inside the rubber boot ruled out 3?
    So #1 seems most likely.

    I don't know if I have the stomach to go through another transmission repair as I don't ride this bike much anymore (09 r12GSA bought last year). I wanted to keep it as a 2nd bike since I had "fixed" the transmission.

    Any advice/experience on selling as-is or parting out ?

    I can also use it as a teaching tool for myself (I'm only a very minor wrench right now). Is there any hope to make this a DIY job ?

  4. #4
    Rally Rat
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    Pull your starter. On the center stand turn the wheel in gear watch the input shaft.

    Make your decision after you know exactly what is wrong.

    Best O luck

    David

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by jchildress View Post
    I can also use it as a teaching tool for myself (I'm only a very minor wrench right now). Is there any hope to make this a DIY job ?
    It doesn't sound exactly like input splines. That normally makes a much bigger noise. That being said, there is obviously something wrong downstream of your engine. I personally think you have a fabulous DIY opportunity here. It's a big job, but not horribly complex. You can get started with a few additions to a basic tool set. You need a heat gun (or mini torch), a 30 mm socket, and a 12 mm hex.

    I would start by draining the transmission and final drive oils. See if anything crazy comes out. Then pull your starter and have a look around. Then pull your final drive. Then your swingarm. A final drive or driveshaft problem (my bet) will have revealed itself at that time. If not, it's time to pull the tranny.

    Go for it. My best wrenching experiences have started from the point where I looked at a vehicle and said, "Well, it's worth basically nothing now. I can't make it any worse. I might as well dive in and try to fix it."

    Take notes. Take a lot of pics. Ask questions here. You can do it!

  6. #6
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    Thanks Paul & Jim,

    Thanks for the encouragement. I think I will indeed try to learn something and do some careful digging myself. Will post pictures of anything interesting.

    What do you recommend to safely stabilize/position the bike before pulling things apart ?

    - Jeff.

  7. #7
    Benchwrenching PGlaves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jchildress View Post
    Thanks Paul & Jim,

    Thanks for the encouragement. I think I will indeed try to learn something and do some careful digging myself. Will post pictures of anything interesting.

    What do you recommend to safely stabilize/position the bike before pulling things apart ?

    - Jeff.
    The R1100 bikes have the centerstand under the engine case, not the transmission like the classic K bikes. The bike on the centerstand on concrete is pretty stable. I do it on a lift with a wheel vice. Before I got the lift I edged the side of the front tire to a center post in the garage and strapped it tightly. Another option is a sheet of plywood - with the front wheel on the board and tie downs to eye hooks at least a couple of feet over from the front tire.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
    "The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution." - Bertrand Russell
    http://www.bigbend.net/users/glaves

  8. #8
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    Strap the center stand to the front tire so you can't push the bike off it while working on it. I read that here and it saved my ass more than once.

    David

  9. #9
    Registered User Olsensan's Avatar
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    Look for posts that illustrate how to do the job(s) you may do. I did one some time ago on doing the spline lube. Search for "Pictorial" and you'll find it. Do the same for the other jobs you'll consider, they are not a big deal really, just go slow and stay organized. Everyone will help you through it here so you are never alone.

    Go here:
    http://www.bmwmoa.org/forum/showthre...ht=a+pictorial

  10. #10
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    Thanks to all - bear with me it might take me a little while to get started... Will report (or cry out) as I go (or fail to !)...

  11. #11
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    Yes, you CAN!

    I wouldn't throw this one away. Jim Moore nailed it: ". . .worth nothing (or very little) now . . . might as well dive in."

    Believe it or not, this is a gift. With nothing to lose, you are going to learn a lot, and dare I say it? have some winter fun! This "big stuff" is scary as hell when you first start to turn wrenches, but once you've done it, you'll wonder what the fuss was about. You have the advantage of TIME being on your side. Take some stuff off. Take a look. See what's wrong. Check manuals/internet/forii/video tutorials. Repair/replace. Learn that you must eat the elephant a bite at a time. A lot of mechanic work (and time) is just removing stuff that allows access to what is broke.

    If you start to look for parting-out donor bikes, you'll find a lot of them, and many will have little or nothing wrong with the drive-parts. Probably many low-mileage donor bikes. Depending on what's wrong, just "out with the old, in with the new (or lightly-used) . ." and you'll might be good to go.

    Harbor Freight for the tools you don't have. Stay ORGANIZED and WORK CLEAN with digital photos augmented by copious NOTES, and label everything you take off WHEN YOU TAKE IT OFF -- use baggies. I use zip-tied notes on the bike for removed components, bolts I might forget, etc., but I'm old.

    You won't know whether you like this wrenching stuff until you dive in, and you may find that you really like it. Although having an engineering degree or mechanical background is very helpful, not everybody has this advantage. However, this can all be learned fairly quickly when you have the motivation, which you certainly do. No need to re-invent the wheel, as you aren't the first guy to dive in to a project without knowing much! DAMHIK.

    Good luck with this fun exploration. Attitude is everything.

    Walking Eagle

  12. #12
    Registered User Olsensan's Avatar
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    Walking Eagle is right. And when the day comes that you put it back together, you'll be darn proud of yourself! Stay committed and always strive for the difficult, for there are the rewards.

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    Thumbs up A new plan

    Well I am finally getting around to getting my hands dirty on this.
    My current theory is that it has to do with the final drive. The reason is if I put the bike in 5th gear and try to turn the wheel, it turns fairly easily with a mild grinding noise (similar to what I imagine worn splines would sound like). Noise seems to come from the vicinity of the final drive as opposed to up the shaft and near the transmission.
    I am planning to start taking the wheel off and final drive tomorrow - following my Clymer manual - will post pictures. Any input on what to watch out for before I get started ?

  14. #14
    Registered User m_stock10506's Avatar
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    New Plan? Now the Final Drive?

    First, if you think the final drive is making growling/grinding noise - have you drained the FD gear oil and examined the oil and the drain plug?

    If this exam shows more than just grey paste on the magnet, you may have a FD big bearing that is starting to fail. You can check out two videos that show disassembly of the final drive. The long version also shows reassembly and measuring preload for shims.

    Final Drive Disassembly (short version):
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8_4l...eature=related

    Final Drive Rebuild (long version):
    http://www.bmwlt.com/uploads/lt_final_drive_rebuild.wmv - don't be concerned with the weird images at the very beginning of the video - who knows why they are there...
    Michael Stock, Trinity, NC
    R1100RT, R100, R60/6

  15. #15
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    Universal joint or shaft ??

    Removed the rear wheel - Having trouble removing the two hex bolts (5mm) that affix the brake disc to the final drive. I heated with a heat gun but to no avail. How do I know I have heated them enough to loosen them ?

    As far as the core issue - I am hopping it is the universal joint or perhaps drive shaft rather than final drive...
    I will drain the gear oil from the final drive next and will let you know what I find....tomorrow morning....

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