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Thread: Helmets won't save you in 30+ MPH crashes

  1. #61
    Registered User greenwald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tonyfr View Post
    This is from a 50 MPH over the front fairing get off. Tell me a helmet doesn't matter. I was wearing full riding gear.
    Amen!
    Kevin Greenwald - Touring Tips Editor
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  2. #62
    R1200RT Artiee's Avatar
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    So that's where zombies come from...

    A friend of mine had a crash on the BRP at around 40 mph. He's still up walking around among the rest of us living people. I guess my friend doesn't know he is supposed to be dead.

    Experience IS NOT the best teacher! Someone else's experience is the best teacher.

  3. #63
    Bluenoser
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    Whether you survive in a motorcycle crash or a motor vehicle crash depends on the circumstances of the crash. As an overall percentage that I've read about, the difference in the actual survival rate for motorcycle crashes where the riders were wearing a helmet and not wearing a helmet is actually quite low, in the area of 5 or 6%.

    There is no doubt in a lot of crashes where the motorcyclist doesn't hit anything or nothing hits him/her then the ATGATT is going to make a big difference in the minor injuries area, but can be insignificant in major trauma crashes. An example is a friend of mine left the road on her R1200R. She was wearing full gear including full face helmet. She survived the crash but ended up with a broken back. Her gear protected her from the road rash etc., but had no bearing with her impact with the ground.

    Face it if you tangle with car or leave the road at even legal speed limits your chances of surviving are not good. ATGATT may help but it can't guarantee survival.

    Riding a motorcycle is dangerous and it will always be dangerous. Ride Safe.
    1971 R50/5 SWB with R75/6 drivetrain
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  4. #64
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    I feel safer with protective gear

    How's that for scientific proof
    Anthony S.
    2012 R1200GS

  5. #65
    Kbiker BCKRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sloride View Post
    I feel safer with protective gear

    How's that for scientific proof
    Me too. But I think there is something to the idea that we WANT a "perceived level of risk" when we drive or ride, though certainly some of us want more and others less. Classic example was two groups of taxi drivers; the ones in cars equipped with ABS tail-gated more than those with standard brakes.

    I KNOW that wearing jeans one day instead riding pants saved me from a speeding ticket. It was just a 4 mile trip into town to get gas, but that "naked from the waist down" feeling was enough to slow me down a bit - 64 kph in a 50 zone - and I just received a warning.

    The one accident where I bonked my helmeted head, I didn't even realize the fact for half an hour. Helmet certainly saved me from one hell of a headache if not worse.
    Doug
    1992 K100RS

  6. #66
    Registered User amiles's Avatar
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    With all due respect....

    Highly trained accident investigators are often not immediately available to respond for the more serious or complex crashes. With the passage of even a brief time, much critical information is lost.

    When an investigation begins at a later time, evidence at the scene will have been removed and/or degraded, witnesses may not be available or be as forthright or clear in their minds about what they had seen.

    I'd have more faith in the conclusions drawn from accident statistics if I felt that the raw data was consistent & reliable.

  7. #67
    Registered User rxcrider's Avatar
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    Helmet effectiveness can be really skewed depending on the data set being used and how it is analyzed. I think this is one of the less flawed studies:

    http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/809715.pdf

    and even that study can't tell the difference between these two helmets.

    but I'll bet a paycheck that there is one

    As for the rest of the gear, it becomes even more difficult to analyze, if there is even data from real world crashes. The protection from a $3000 race suit is superior to a $500 race suit and even that is better than the textile jacket and pants that I ride in. I trade some ankle, foot and and leg protection for walking comfort when I lace up my riding boots instead of putting on a pair of race boots. The same goes for the gloves and probably the flip up chin on my helmet. All ATTGATT isn't created equally and the best gear in the world won't save you from a freak accident. Pick your level of protection, know your limits and surroundings, then twist the throttle and roll the dice.

    May you never have a crash that you can't walk away from and may you always be able to pick your bike up and get back in the saddle.

  8. #68
    Polarbear Polarbear's Avatar
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    All is good:)

    Too much knowledge will kill you, or bore you to death!! Its good to dress up in proper attire for the challenge(s) at hand. Those ignoring it die young. Doctors rarely are biker friendly, just worry too much with all the knowledge they have, knowing death too well perhaps. IF bikers are the risk takers in life, what are all the cage folks? We risk daily, all apparel in place, playing polo with thousands of poundage(cars/trucks) sharing our space on the byways. A helmet question arizes? How wonderful. I wear mine always, but know its limits are there, who doesn't? Randy

  9. #69
    Mind is not for rent
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    A helmet is on your head to protect you when things go wrong. In some cases it'll make a difference, in others it won't. What it won't do is prevent things from going wrong. Learn how to handle your bike and ride defensively.

    The most expensive, comprehensive gear in the world won't do a thing for you if you're run over, or slide into a metal guardrail at 60mph.

  10. #70
    Caribbean Druid
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    [/QUOTE]
    http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/809715.pdf

    ...and even that study can't tell the difference between these two helmets.
    but I'll bet a paycheck that there is one

    [/QUOTE]

    Here's the study you want: http://trid.trb.org/view.aspx?id=1124566

    The study is entitled ÔÇ£Injury Protection and Accident Causation Parameters for Vulnerable Road UsersÔÇØ by Dietmar Otte, a biomedical researcher and others. It addresses, among other things, the crash impact points on motorcycle helmets. The motorcycle side of the study sampled 2199 crashes. According to the study, in the event of a crash in which there is a head impact, the chances are 62.8% that the initial impact will occur somewhere in the front or side facial regions. There is also a 34.6% chance that the initial impact will come in the chin bar area, either the right or left side.

    Any other questions?

  11. #71
    Go Leafs Go CANADIANSTEVE's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    I grew up in Ontario, Canada, with a helmet law ... and never in 35 years of riding have I crashed and hit my head. Doesn't mean I never will. I hung around racers who sometimes crashed at well over 160 KPH at the track and walked away. I wouldn't play hockey without a helmet, I wouldn't weld without one either ...it just makes sense to me ! I cringe every time I hear an accident report conclude with " rider was not wearing a helmet ". Yes you had the freedom to choose, but you are still dead ! A motorcycle mentor of mine once said to me if you crash at speed without proper gear " you may not want to survive anyway " Harsh words but it is really your friends and family who are left to suffer if you do pass on. Take a moment to consider the people who love you ! Ride safe ok !!!

    Steve
    steve now in CT
    moved from Toronto
    92 R100RS

  12. #72
    rangerreece rangerreece's Avatar
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    Weighing in on the subject

    "National Highway Traffic Safety Administration estimates that helmets saved 1,550 motorcyclistsÔÇÖ lives in 2010, and that 706 more could have been saved if all motorcyclists had worn helmets." Someone's actually tracking how many lives could be saved with the use of a helmet... that stat should be enough, if it's not than you can't change "their" minds anyways. The picture was take right after I was run over by the trailer with back hoe late October of this year. I was in a turn 35 mph when the vehicle in front of me was performing an illegal u-turn. I leveled and performed emergency braking maneuver coming to a complete stop in 15 feet, ABS chirping all the way. After coming to a complete stop the vehicle in question did not see me and my "high vis yellow" and continued his "pincer" maneuver on my bike, with the clutch pulled still in 4th gear I was trying to duck walk the bike backwards; but to no avail, the rear wheel of the trailer went over my front tire forcing the bike and me to the ground.
    Had a brand new Shuberth helmet on it did not touch the ground, basically all I did was fall over at 0 mph, wearing full gear, and even that caused a scrape on my right shin, bruising on my left elbow and bruise on my left hip. Full gear mind you. Moral of the story, wear all your gear, when traveling at speed, get that bike below 30 mph if at all possible and you should be good, but don't skimp or skip on gear, you will pay the price and it won't be nice. I'm headed to pick up the bike tomorrow from Pensacola BMW. It's been my longest hiatus from riding since I've started riding. I'm so looking forward to getting back in the saddle.
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  13. #73
    Rally Rat
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    The Dianese air suits ostensibly reduce force transmitted to the rider in some areas by up to 90% if memory serves - seems potentially live saving in an off the bike incident...

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