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Thread: Helmets won't save you in 30+ MPH crashes

  1. #16
    Registered User f14rio's Avatar
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    one thing that's important to remember....

    ...90% of all motor vehicle accidents occur within 10 miles of home. that's why its critical to get as far away from home as fast as possible when starting a trip.
    "Enemy fighters at 2 o'clock!...Roger, What should i do until then?"

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  2. #17
    Registered User greenwald's Avatar
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by HRbiker View Post
    Erie County (PA) Coroner Lyell Cook recently stated that if you're involved in a crash over that speed, no safety equipment will save you, including helmets.

    Geez, I think I've had friends who were going 20 MPH on bicycles and crashed and were OK.

    What's even more troubling is since PA doesn't require helmets many riders may elect to have none of the gear, all the time
    I've watched numerous motorcycle racers walk away from crashes at three times that speed at Road America, where I'm on staff as an instructor.

    Ignore him and move on.
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  3. #18
    Registered User greenwald's Avatar
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    Thumbs down

    Quote Originally Posted by bikerfish1100 View Post
    Gee, that must be the reason that we see SO many deaths in AMA, MotoGP, MRA and all the other levels of racing where helmet use is required.

    what a maroon. unfortunately, too many may actually take his word as gospel.
    Just the liberal media - makes for flashy headlines.

    Ignore them and move on.
    Last edited by Greenwald; 11-19-2012 at 01:48 PM.
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  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by f14rio View Post
    ...90% of all motor vehicle accidents occur within 10 miles of home. that's why its critical to get as far away from home as fast as possible when starting a trip.
    I'm good with that!

  5. #20
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    The liberal media? Let us guess - hard rightwing media has more people that have actually fallen on their heads?

    Seriously, it would seem that helmet issues aren't exactly a political discussion.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acejones View Post
    This begs the question; at what speed do most motorcycle accidents happen ?

    You can find the most detailed data on that statistic in the European "MAIDS" study; which is a recent in-depth study of motorcycle accidents: You can access the data tables here: http://www.maids-study.eu/data_tables.html (You may have to create an account to log into the actual crash study pages).

    However, these are stats based on the European riding environment, so the data may or may not be valid for the U.S.

    DOT studies say about 27 percent of motorcycle operators killed in crashes were speeding. (Source: http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/810834.PDF)

    I do a lot safety-related work and research in the industry, so here are some more stats to think about:

    - The most common location for crashes involving a motorcycle and another motor vehicle (4 or more wheels) is at intersections. The usual scenario is the other vehicle turning left into the motorcyclist's right-of-way. We probably all know this one... (Source: MSF)

    - Here's one you may not know. Approximately 40% of all motorcycle fatalities occur because the bike ran off the road. The most common location for this is in a curve/corner. The usual culprit: too much speed. (Source: MSF)

    - According to another recent European study, if you do crash, the chances are 62.8% that your initial head impact will occur somewhere in the front or side facial region.The study goes on to say 34.6% of those total first impacts will be in the chin bar area. Kind of makes a point when you think about how many riders wear open (3/4) helmets or less, doesn't it?. (Source: http://trid.trb.org/view.aspx?id=1124566)

    There are lots of other, sobering statistics out there and a little research will find them. Do some reading and you won't get on a bike again without ATGATT.

  7. #22
    Registered User 36654's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenwald View Post
    Just the liberal media - makes for flashy headlines.
    You should look at the other stories on the goerie.com website. They seemed awfully excited about their interview with Glenn Beck.......
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  8. #23
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    My cousin went to work on an ambulance when he first returned from Vietnam(where he was a medic) & after a short while on that job he told me that "seatbelts obviously don't save lives as the occupants cannot jump from the car in a wreck". Methinks he belongs to the same club as the coroner the OP makes reference to?
    The real question here becomes - Do coroners watch the liberal media or not...

    moderator , where are you?

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by kantuckid View Post
    moderator , where are you?
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  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenwald View Post
    Just the liberal media - makes for flashy headlines.
    I feel dumber having read this.
    Ride Safe, Ride Lots

  11. #26
    Registered User greenwald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwestly View Post
    You can find the most detailed data on that statistic in the European "MAIDS" study; which is a recent in-depth study of motorcycle accidents: You can access the data tables here: http://www.maids-study.eu/data_tables.html (You may have to create an account to log into the actual crash study pages).

    However, these are stats based on the European riding environment, so the data may or may not be valid for the U.S.

    DOT studies say about 27 percent of motorcycle operators killed in crashes were speeding. (Source: http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/Pubs/810834.PDF)

    I do a lot safety-related work and research in the industry, so here are some more stats to think about:

    - The most common location for crashes involving a motorcycle and another motor vehicle (4 or more wheels) is at intersections. The usual scenario is the other vehicle turning left into the motorcyclist's right-of-way. We probably all know this one... (Source: MSF)

    - Here's one you may not know. Approximately 40% of all motorcycle fatalities occur because the bike ran off the road. The most common location for this is in a curve/corner. The usual culprit: too much speed. (Source: MSF)

    - According to another recent European study, if you do crash, the chances are 62.8% that your initial head impact will occur somewhere in the front or side facial region.The study goes on to say 34.6% of those total first impacts will be in the chin bar area. Kind of makes a point when you think about how many riders wear open (3/4) helmets or less, doesn't it?. (Source: http://trid.trb.org/view.aspx?id=1124566)

    There are lots of other, sobering statistics out there and a little research will find them. Do some reading and you won't get on a bike again without ATGATT.
    All excellent resouces to consider.

    Here in Wisconsin, the percentage of "running off the road in a curve" incidents is even higher than 40%, with a frequent dose of alcohol mixed in as well. We have our own 'demons' to work on reducing here in the Badger State.

    As for the initial poster's inquiry, your best bet is still to suit up ATGATT. Many factors can be introduced into the 'survival equation' of a motorcycle crash, i.e. road surface, victim's health, age and level of physical fitness, angle of contact with fixed objects, and of course velocity dynamics.

    I've seen low-speed crashes kill and high-speed crashes with minimal injuries. Not an exact science, so again - "dress for the slide as well as the ride."
    Last edited by Greenwald; 11-19-2012 at 01:49 PM.
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  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikerfish1100 View Post
    okay. if you read his entire quote, you realize what Cook is actually saying, which is that above 30 mph you're most likely to die from internal injuries, rathe than a head injury. given the number of potential objects one can hit, get impaled on, slammed against.. it kinda makes sense. cherry-picking his quote to sound like he is saying "don't bother with a helmet" is really pretty lame- the guy sounds like he is actually more of an anti-motorcycle guy than an anti-helmet guy. quoting someone out of context sure changes the meaning, doesn't it?
    Why let facts get in the way of another perfectly good, semi-hysterical helmet rant?

  13. #28
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    Exactly. Not an exact science, but at the same time when you listen to his entire comment I understand where he was trying to go with his comments.

    Yes, you can fly off your motorcycle at 50 MPH and roll on the dirt next to the ditch and be relatively fine. But you can also hit a truck at 30 MPH and die. If you believe his comment to mean -when your head or body hits an object when traveling over 30 MPH you stand a good chance of dying, then I agree with him.

    If you think you're invincible because you're wearing a full face helmet, you're fooling yourself. Too many variables involved in a motorcycle crash, many more than in a car crash. I investigated one M/C crash where the kid struck the concrete Jersey barrier on a curve. His helmeted head looked perfect but there was one minor problem- his lower torso and legs were lying 75 feet away.

  14. #29
    R100GS, '89 Guenther's Avatar
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    Now where did this coroner say that if you are going above 30mph and you are in an accident it is SAFER NOT TO WEAR A HELMET?

    All I got from it was that above 30 mph there is no guaranteed safety from wearing a helmet...which sounds reasonable to me.

    /Guenther

  15. #30
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