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Thread: Impact wrench or Breaker bar

  1. #16
    Benchwrenching PGlaves's Avatar
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    I would use a small butane torch at this location. One of the "pencil" torches would be my choice. I would apply the heat right on the tip of the stud the nut is threaded onto. A soldering iron on a chunk of steel this big wouldn't do anything useful. I don't think a heat gun would either because the heat is too spread out.

    2701 is the European number for what was 270 in the U.S. The same stuff that has caused a lot of problems for folks replacing Paralever pivot bearings. It is high strength and takes heat to melt and break the bond. Tom Cutter has described it as "glass like", and Darryl Mehrten has recently had Paralever pivot threads strip and ruin the swingarm when it wasn't hot enough.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
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  2. #17
    Day Dreaming ... happy wanderer's Avatar
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    I have 3 tools in the arsenal for heating things up. This little guy is what I used for the 14mm nuts atop the fork tubes. 2 to 3 minutes makes the loctite soft and releases the bond. This thing also works really well on the paralever pivot bearings Paul just mentioned. Just point it in the middle of the hex bolt for a while to avoid wrecking the paint.
    http://www.harborfreight.com/micro-torch-42099.html

    For bigger stuff where there is no paint around like final drive bearing races or larger bushings I use this guy. It was a bit expensive but built to last but as mentioned you can get a much cheaper one at Harbor Freight. http://www.amazon.com/Wagner-Power-P.../dp/B00004TUCY


    And the old standby for even bigger stuff is of course the good old plumbing torch! Now THIS thing will set stuff on fire in a hurry.
    http://www.homedepot.com/Plumbing-To...&storeId=10051
    MJM - BeeCeeBeemers Motorcycle Club Vancouver B.C.
    '81 R80G/S, '82 R100RS, '00 R1100RT

  3. #18
    Merlin III
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    Success

    Thanks to the advice and encouragement here I went back and tried one more time to get the nuts off. This time I put the butane torch on the nut and bolt for a full timed 5 minutes and I was able to break the lock. Thanks again for the help.
    Phil

  4. #19
    Unfunded content provider tommcgee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Merlin III View Post
    Thanks to the advice and encouragement here I went back and tried one more time to get the nuts off. This time I put the butane torch on the nut and bolt for a full timed 5 minutes and I was able to break the lock. Thanks again for the help.
    Phil
    Was it blue locktite? Red is usually the toughest one.
    Salty Fog Rally 2007, 2009, 2011, 2012, AND LOOKING FORWARD TO 2014!

    -Tom (KA1TOX)

  5. #20
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    Good deal ! Glad you succeeded. Usually someone here has the right answer and can help out.
    '03 R1150R, '03 F650GS, '97DR200SE,'78 Honda CT-90, '77Honda CT-90

  6. #21
    Rally Rat
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    Quote Originally Posted by tommcgee View Post
    Was it blue locktite? Red is usually the toughest one.
    To me, Blue Locktite is #242. Its for non permanant lcoking. Put it on the idle screw of a carburator that is vibrating out. It will keep it in place unless you keep messing with the screw.

    Red or 272 is more permanent. It cures with out the presence of air. Dries a hard plastic. 200*F will break it loose. I use a propane or butane torch. Keep the flame on the bolt and off the paint. Give it time.

    For the paralever bearings, the small ones, I cleaned all the locktite off, torqued the bolts. After a week I re adjusted them and marked them with a paint pen. They have not moved in a year+.

    Still tight.




    Glad you got your bike apart.

  7. #22
    Day Dreaming ... happy wanderer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tommcgee View Post
    Was it blue locktite? Red is usually the toughest one.
    I think the stuff BMW uses comes off looking grey. To me anyway. Maybe it was blue when applied but the stuff trapped in the threads when I clean it out appears grey. But I'm told it is the equivalent of what we call blue loctite.
    MJM - BeeCeeBeemers Motorcycle Club Vancouver B.C.
    '81 R80G/S, '82 R100RS, '00 R1100RT

  8. #23
    Unfunded content provider tommcgee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Happy Wanderer View Post
    I think the stuff BMW uses comes off looking grey. To me anyway. Maybe it was blue when applied but the stuff trapped in the threads when I clean it out appears grey. But I'm told it is the equivalent of what we call blue loctite.
    Yeah, the blue looks greyish on Japanese bikes too. I never had to heat it up to break it free though -- not so with the red. It take a four foot pipe on the end of the breaker bar to free that stuff up if you don't use heat.
    Salty Fog Rally 2007, 2009, 2011, 2012, AND LOOKING FORWARD TO 2014!

    -Tom (KA1TOX)

  9. #24
    Merlin III
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    Like I said at the beginning, I haven't really touched a wrench since I was in my twenties and that was quite a while ago.

    There were blue paint like marks on the end of the bolts when I originally took off the plastic caps. I had no idea what that meant. I now assume that was a factory indicator that it had the German 2701 blue type Loctite. When I finally removed the bolts all I noticed was grayish junk on the bolts.

    I realize that those are bolts that you would never want to come loose on their own, but what I dealt with was way overkill IMHO.

  10. #25
    Benchwrenching PGlaves's Avatar
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    Loctite makes 20 or so formulations available in the U.S. As noted, the common ones are 242 blue and 272 red but those are just the tip of the iceberg.

    Generally thread locker makers, including both Loctite and Permatex have adopted the following general schemes:

    Purple = Low strength
    Blue = Medium stenght - requires hand tools
    Red= in various formulas either high strength or permanent. (Permanent means permanent - don't even try, so read the label)
    Green = Wicking applied after the fastener is tight - may be medium or high strength.

    You can get liquid, paste, instant drying liquid, and tape with varying numbers and strengths but mostly following the color scheme.

    With some types, tape for instance, you can take it apart and tell what color it was. Generally with liquid types unless you use way too much it dries to a gray and comes out looking gray.

    As referenced in a post above it appears BMW uses 2701 (used to be 270 in the U.S. but no longer available) on these nuts. I understand from Tom Cutter that 270 is Red, high strength, and both locks and fills the minute gaps in threads with what Tom described as a "glass like" substance when cured. Unless melted this stuff just brings the threads with it if enough force is applied, or the fastener breaks.
    Last edited by PGlaves; 11-23-2012 at 08:52 PM.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
    "The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution." - Bertrand Russell
    http://www.bigbend.net/users/glaves

  11. #26
    Benchwrenching PGlaves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Merlin III View Post

    I realize that those are bolts that you would never want to come loose on their own, but what I dealt with was way overkill IMHO.
    BMW has been known to do that. My favorite is the two, shallow flat headed bolts that secure the rear brake disk to the final drive hubs on several models including K75s and R1100RSs. BMW uses high strength locker here. Now of course if a brake disk came loose it could be a problem, but in this case the four wheel bolts all go through the disk tightly clamping the wheel to the disk and the disk to the hub. And with the wheel in place the little disk bolts can't back out. All they do is keep the disk from falling off when the wheel is off. Certainly low or medium strength locker would have been more than sufficient.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
    "The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution." - Bertrand Russell
    http://www.bigbend.net/users/glaves

  12. #27
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    Interesting discussion of the various forms of "locking" sealers. BMW has lawyers that don't want your bike to just come apart on its own. They don't really care if you ever get it apart.
    '03 R1150R, '03 F650GS, '97DR200SE,'78 Honda CT-90, '77Honda CT-90

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