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Thread: Veterans day

  1. #61
    Survivor akbeemer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PGlaves View Post
    At the same time, I must also say that I am deeply saddened by a number of people I know who served two years, or maybe four years, forty or more years ago, and that seems to have been the absolute highlight of their lives.
    I've been spending too much time at the local VA hospital here in Montana recently. A fine facility and the care has been good, but I chose to move over to the private sector when they wanted to send me to Salt Lake City for 8 weeks instead of treating me locally. It is certainly sad to see the mostly Vietnam era vets over there that are stuck in what was a probably 2 year segement of their life. Festooned in military ball caps displaying their unit and decorations, wearing jackets, belt buckles and any other reminder of their war. And not to be mean, but I suspect much of what is displayed on some vets is for unearned glory. If you chat with them they seem surprisingly uninformed about their old unit, where it was and what it did.... just some. The gift store is awash in the stuff as well as decals and stickers. I fear many continue to use their wartime experience as a cruthch to explain other life issues. Maybe true maybe not, but sad indeed. Sadder still is that there is a growing number of replacements from the current wars. When my daughter graduated with her BSN Degree I asked if she would consider working at the VA. "No", she said, "full of broken old men and badly damaged young men."
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  2. #62
    Benchwrenching PGlaves's Avatar
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    This is NOT a political post, but the way we, as a society, care for our damaged veterans is a national discrace, and it has been for 50 years. A thank you once a year on Veterans Day is nice, but it fails to excuse the years of neglect.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
    "The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution." - Bertrand Russell
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  3. #63
    Registered User argent brick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PGlaves View Post
    This is NOT a political post, but the way we, as a society, care for our damaged veterans is a national discrace, and it has been for 50 years. A thank you once a year on Veterans Day is nice, but it fails to excuse the years of neglect.
    +1

    I agree with you, Paul.
    Lynn
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  4. #64
    Raspberry waffles Bob!!! kewlmoose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PGlaves View Post
    This is NOT a political post, but the way we, as a society, care for our damaged veterans is a national discrace, and it has been for 50 years. A thank you once a year on Veterans Day is nice, but it fails to excuse the years of neglect.
    Yeah, I agree with you 100% Paul.
    The last time I was at the VA hospital (20 or so years ago) the doctor I saw could barely speak english. I still think that's why my disability rating got lowered. I hope things have improved since then.
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  5. #65
    Kbiker BCKRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tommcgee View Post
    Those weren't my words, just posted them to illustrate that a whole bunch of us don't want thanks and the reasons are many. Like several others here, the thanks we got from our own countrymen after Vietnam was verbal abuse and more. That was the time a kind word would have been useful. 40+ years later I'll be gracious if someone says thanks to my face, but no one ever has.
    The Vietnam war was the reason I moved to Canada when I did in 1970. As you probably remember, the deferment rules kept changing. After completing four years of college (but no degree) I was certain I was going to be drafted. As a musician I passed an audition for a stint in an air force post band, after failing to pass an audition in Washington DC for the main air force band. I was a decent musician then, but I was competing with Juilliard students! I asked if I could postpone signing on until I met with my draft board the following week. "No problem. Just give us a call."

    To my surprise, the draft board allowed me to go back to college for a fifth year to complete two music BA's, one in arts and one in education. I asked what would happen then. "What do you plan to do?" "I plan to teach music." "Well, we are deferring teachers." So I completed my degrees and got a job teaching music at a first-class Junior High. That teaching deferrment was only good for one year, and of course the option of joining the post band was long gone.

    I've never regretted my decision to move to Canada. I've enjoyed good careers as a public school teacher, a private teacher, a symphony musician (now in my 43rd season) and a gigging musician.

    I regret the treatment Vietnam vets received when they returned home, but I think I understand it. This was a "bad war" both then and in retrospect. I believe serving you country is a good thing - and maybe it should be demanded - but blind allegiance to the current leader of any country is NOT a good thing.

    US and Canadian involvement in wars certainly did not end with Vietnam. I believe the question is still open whether the enormous dollars and lives that Iraq and Afghanistan cost both our countries was worth it.

    But we do still need a dedicated, well-trained military. I favor a well-trained, well-paid group of professionals who hopefully remain for many years because they find satisfaction in their work and get increasingly good at it. But they know it can be very dangerous work.

    The fact that both the US and Canada have reduced their support for damaged vets seems to me the ultimate stupidity. If we are to have volunteer soldiers, I would think they have to know the support will be there when they come home damaged in some way.
    Doug
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  6. #66
    Registered User argent brick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCKRIDER View Post
    The Vietnam war was the reason I moved to Canada when I did in 1970 ......I've never regretted my decision to move to Canada........ but blind allegiance to the current leader of any country is NOT a good thing.
    I do have question for you...the Vietnam headache was all but ancient history by the mid 70's. Did you ever consider moving back here to the US?

    Personally, I believe we should follow our leaders only when they are following the Constitution. I don't have to follow them very much.

    Just my two cents. If I say any more it will get political, and I can't do that.
    Lynn
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  7. #67
    Registered User 36654's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ARGENT BRICK View Post
    Personally, I believe we should follow our leaders only when they are following the Constitution. I don't have to follow them very much.

    That statement is ripe with possibilities...........
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  8. #68
    Marine By Choice #188306
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    But try to only follow orders if the "leaders" are honest and within the confines of he Constitution. As a Marine NCO you followed orders, did not question them, or you wound up receiving office hours or a court martial!

  9. #69
    Unfunded content provider tommcgee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marine By Choice View Post
    But try to only follow orders if the "leaders" are honest and within the confines of he Constitution. As a Marine NCO you followed orders, did not question them, or you wound up receiving office hours or a court martial!
    That's the deal you make in the military. I was never tested on it, but I would have rebelled if they pushed me too far, no question about it.
    Salty Fog Rally 2007, 2009, 2011, 2012, AND LOOKING FORWARD TO 2014!

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  10. #70
    Kbiker BCKRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ARGENT BRICK View Post
    I do have question for you...the Vietnam headache was all but ancient history by the mid 70's. Did you ever consider moving back here to the US?

    Personally, I believe we should follow our leaders only when they are following the Constitution. I don't have to follow them very much.

    Just my two cents. If I say any more it will get political, and I can't do that.
    Funny story: some time before the general amnesty, my parents sent me a news-clipping that charges had been dropped against SOME draft dodgers, and the article had a toll-free number to call to see if you were still on the "wanted" list. I made the call. The guy who answered the phone sounded about 19 and stoned: "Well, fxxk man, I don't see your name on the fxxking list." My parents had a lawyer check this out. Turns out he was right. Never did find out what technicallity took me off the "wanted" list. But there were quite a few years that I never returned to the US. Of course the draft board never informed my parents that I was no longer subject to arrest if I crossed the border.

    To answer your first question; no, I never considered moving back to the states. By the time that was an option I had a career as a teacher, a position in an orchestra, friends, and my own modest home in the country.

    I don't think the caliber of politics or politicians is much better in Canada, though the countries are definitely different in political systems. We do have decent univeral health care that only now the US may get. I have dual citizenship in these two countries. Want to guess which one I chose to issue me a passport?

    I hope none of this is too "political" for any of you or the mod's. If you disagree with anything in my two comments on this thread, I'm more than willing to consider your opinions.
    Doug
    1992 K100RS

  11. #71
    Registered User 36654's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCKRIDER View Post
    Want to guess which one I chose to issue me a passport?
    I'm not really interested in guessing, but since you raised the point, I am curious. Which country did you choose for the passport and why?
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  12. #72
    Nardowell nardowell's Avatar
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    On Veterans day it is great to honor all my fellow veterans.

    As it is our duty to defend our country, it is also our duty to speak out about unnecessary wars as was Vietnam. As a veteran and a patriot we should not let our leaders send us into a war that we have no business being in. I saw enough of this in Vietnam.

    Veterans For Peace has done a good job of making sure veterans from Vietnam, Iraq and Afhganistan are heard. This is a picture of me with the VFP flag.

    Welcome home all vets.
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