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Thread: The Wethead has arrived....

  1. #61
    Registered User easy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by osbornk View Post
    This is similar to what they said about Ford when they decided to go with the Ecoboost V6 engine in their best selling F-150. People said a V6 couldn't take the loads and that pick-up owners would not buy it over the traditional V8. The engine has proven to be very reliable and they can't keep up with demand for the engine. I think 40%+ of the F-150s sold are sold with the Ecoboost.


    Regarding water leaks. From what I understand, they are replacing the oil cooling with water cooling. Why would water be more likely to leak than oil? Water leaks have not been an issue with ATVs that converted from air to water cooling several years ago (and they are abused far worse than the GS)? Water leaks have not been a problem on cars, trucks, jeeps, tractors, etc. that have been water cooled for over a century.

    I have and have had John Deere lawn equipment. 3 were air cooled and two were water cooled (Kawasaki). The air cooled engines used a little oil over the summer but neither of the water cooled engines used any oil the entire summer. Water cooling allows closer tolerances because the heat range is not as great.
    Congratulations on your good luck, but you might find the weather to be a little different in the Southwest and outside Marion Va.

    Google "water leaks motorcycles" and you get 6,500,000 hits.

    E.

  2. #62
    Registered User stkmkt1's Avatar
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    I am hung up on the wet clutch. I know most motorbikes now have them. But, one of the reasons the boxer engine enjoyed a typical longer life than other types of engines on bikes was because of the dry clutch. Now you will have clutch contaminants in your engine oil. This will shorten the life of the engine.

    Paul, anyone with real-world mechanical knowledge? Can you confirm I am correct?
    '09 BMW 1200 GSA, 2013 BMW 700GS, 2000 Goldwing SE, '09' V Star 950, '09 Honda Rebel,
    '77 Honda 750A. Holding at six til I get new garage built - need more room for more bikes!

  3. #63
    Left Coast Rider
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    Quote Originally Posted by stkmkt1 View Post
    I am hung up on the wet clutch. I know most motorbikes now have them. But, one of the reasons the boxer engine enjoyed a typical longer life than other types of engines on bikes was because of the dry clutch. Now you will have clutch contaminants in your engine oil. This will shorten the life of the engine.
    Doesn't seem to have hurt a GoldWing with 162k miles on it.....

    " It also has had only routine maintenance:.... Oil change & filter regularly, coolant and brake fluid changed when needed, final drive oil changed and checked periodically, timing belts several times, new tires ever year on rear, every year and a half on front, battery every three years and brake pads when needed, water pump and fan switch once, thermostat twice, spark plugs twice, and we recently replaced the plug wires. Last but not least was replacing the stator, which is normal for a GL 1200 Goldwing. The stator and voltage regulator was replaced the following year after we purchased it. My husband changed the wiring system to his liking so we no longer have to worry about the charging system in the future. The only non-routine repairs were the turn signal relay that went out two years ago, and the window on the brake reservoir started to leak two years ago and had to be repaired."

    Read more: http://www.motorcycleclassics.com/mc...#ixzz28S1aFlZe
    Last edited by BC1100S; 10-05-2012 at 07:22 PM.

  4. #64
    neanderssance man sedanman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stkmkt1 View Post
    I am hung up on the wet clutch. I know most motorbikes now have them. But, one of the reasons the boxer engine enjoyed a typical longer life than other types of engines on bikes was because of the dry clutch. Now you will have clutch contaminants in your engine oil. This will shorten the life of the engine.

    Paul, anyone with real-world mechanical knowledge? Can you confirm I am correct?
    Doesn't seem to have bothered this CBR600 with over 230,000 miles either, on the original clutch!


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZUTfpw8NUM&feature=plcp
    Last edited by sedanman; 10-05-2012 at 10:59 PM. Reason: corrected link
    Paul
    "Friends don't let friends ride junk!"
    2011 R1200RT Traded
    2014 R1200RT fully optioned

  5. #65
    Registered User stkmkt1's Avatar
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    Well, this is encouraging news. We'll see how they do. I am sure that changing oil will become more of a factor than before. I actually change every 3k or so.
    '09 BMW 1200 GSA, 2013 BMW 700GS, 2000 Goldwing SE, '09' V Star 950, '09 Honda Rebel,
    '77 Honda 750A. Holding at six til I get new garage built - need more room for more bikes!

  6. #66
    Registered User oiasghar's Avatar
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    Straight from the horses mouth with all 291 pictures and other downloads

    https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/press...tem=node__2274
    2012 R1200 GS Adventure

  7. #67
    Old man in the mountains osbornk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Easy View Post
    Congratulations on your good luck, but you might find the weather to be a little different in the Southwest and outside Marion Va.

    Google "water leaks motorcycles" and you get 6,500,000 hits.

    E.
    I did a Google search and most of the results aren't applicable.
    'You can say what you want about the South, but I almost never hear of anyone wanting to retire to the North.

  8. #68
    Benchwrenching PGlaves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stkmkt1 View Post
    I am hung up on the wet clutch. I know most motorbikes now have them. But, one of the reasons the boxer engine enjoyed a typical longer life than other types of engines on bikes was because of the dry clutch. Now you will have clutch contaminants in your engine oil. This will shorten the life of the engine.

    Paul, anyone with real-world mechanical knowledge? Can you confirm I am correct?
    I'm not at all sure what the connection would be between clutch type and engine longevity. Provided the clutch releases fully when disengaged and doesn't slip when engaged I don't see any connection to engine life.

    The one absolutely huge benefit to a wet clutch is that it should eliminate the problematic need to do periodic clutch hub spline lubes. They are annoying on the Airheads, a little more trouble on the classic K bikes, and a monumental issue for Oil/Camhead boxers. Owners of these bikes get to choose:
    a. give the dealers about $2,000
    b. spend a couple of days doing it themselves
    c. ignore the issue and get rid of the bike before the splines fail
    (which of course means the next owner gets a $2,000 surprise)

    The "new" K1200/1300 upright fours, and the F bikes have wet clutches and I have not heard of any significant clutch issues.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
    "The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution." - Bertrand Russell
    http://www.bigbend.net/users/glaves

  9. #69
    You stupid, fix it! r11rs94's Avatar
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    periodic clutch hub spline lubes, Paul how many miles is periodic. My oilhead is coming up on 73K. Is this a winter project in the makings.
    The thing about traveling is, you never want it to end and you can't wait to get home.
    I answer to Roy, Chief, or Sarg.
    04 R-1150-RT current bike. 94 R-1100-RS74,383, Sold, 78 R-80/7, K.I.A by a D.U.I
    www.OceanStateBMWriders.com

  10. #70
    Benchwrenching PGlaves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by r11rs94 View Post
    periodic clutch hub spline lubes, Paul how many miles is periodic. My oilhead is coming up on 73K. Is this a winter project in the makings.
    Yes if it were my bike. To be perfectly safe I like a 40,000 miles interval. I've seen them worn badly at 50K and worn some but still OK at 60K.

    It is a pain, but the downside to not doing it is that eventually it is the same amount of labor plus several hundred dollars in parts, plus more labor to replace the transmission input shaft and clutch disk.
    Last edited by PGlaves; 10-06-2012 at 08:12 PM.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
    "The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution." - Bertrand Russell
    http://www.bigbend.net/users/glaves

  11. #71
    You stupid, fix it! r11rs94's Avatar
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    Thanks Paul I now have a winter project. I just receintly decided to keep the bike for a few more years so this will be money well spent.
    The thing about traveling is, you never want it to end and you can't wait to get home.
    I answer to Roy, Chief, or Sarg.
    04 R-1150-RT current bike. 94 R-1100-RS74,383, Sold, 78 R-80/7, K.I.A by a D.U.I
    www.OceanStateBMWriders.com

  12. #72
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    Paul Glaves,

    Please buy a 2013 R1200GS so we can get your maintenance and repair advice and instructions.

    I am first on the list at Gulf Coast BMW for a 2013 R1200GS and have decided to keep my 2000 R1150GS that just turned over 24,000 miles. I had a glance at the dealer's NADA book while I was setting up my deal and it felt like a mule kick to the gut when I saw what the market thinks of my beloved machine; I think much, much more of it than that.

    See you at the next BMW Club of Houston meeting.

  13. #73
    What, me worry? GILLY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PGlaves View Post
    I'm not at all sure what the connection would be between clutch type and engine longevity. Provided the clutch releases fully when disengaged and doesn't slip when engaged I don't see any connection to engine life.
    I understand what is being mentioned, not hard to understand, this has been the case for many manufacturers for decades. It's not really what BMW is "known" for until the wedge came out though.
    The issue that is trying to "made an issue of" is the clutch wear particles being deposited into the engine since it is all unitized. Unitized, imagine that, BMW has finally caught up to 1950s Harley technology and British 1960s technology!
    Last development I heard of is the manufacturer has installed a filter of some sort designed to remove these pesky contaminates from the engine oil. Next thing you know the manufacturer will determine that the intake air might also contain contaminates of some sort which will also require filtering out. Yeesh, these engineers really have to make sure they have work of some sort to do.

    Gilly
    87 K75S, bought new, now sold
    07 K1200GT Bought new, now traded in
    13 C650GT
    MOA 44606

  14. #74
    Still plays with trains. tinytrains's Avatar
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    Water leaks?

    My 1988 K75 has never dripped a drop of water in the 24 years I have owned it. A few drops of oil, but never water. And the radiator still looks new inside. I think BMW knows how to do water cooling.
    1988 K75 Low Seat
    2009 R1200R Roadster

  15. #75
    Still Wondering mika's Avatar
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    From the BMW PressClub release:
    "Optimised handling qualities are the result of refined master geometric chassis data, and a longer swingarm provides further improved traction - especially when riding over rough terrain."

    I am curious about a couple of items here.

    - Has anyone seen the chassis geometry numbers?
    In particular I am curious if the increase in swing arm length also means an increase in wheel base? Or did the redesign of clutch and transmission allow for a more compact unit and thus a longer swing arm with the same wheelbase?

    - For those that do ride off tarmac, what are you thoughts on this and what it would mean to you?

    - For the engineers in the crowd or more versed on rear end geometry; what impact will the increased length potentially have on the strains and various forces put on the final u-joint and final drive.
    Pass the mustard and UP THE REVOLUTION!

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