prices: new Jeep Wrangler vs new GS Adventure in USA

[36654]

And when you can actually find a skilled tradesman, all of the engineers, accountants, and managers love to tell him he costs too much. Crappy hours, conditions, and pay for a position where you are expected to be highly skilled, professional, and productive. And everyone wonders why you cannot find a good hand...........

No argument from me...........I watched it all happen.

BTW - I''m an engineer

[osbornk]

Forgetting the Corvair, are we?

I had 7 Corvairs. Thanks to Mr Nader and mechanics would refused to work on something different, they were a good buy. They were also a good car that outperformed the Valiants, Lancers, Darts, Falcons, Comets and other cars in their segment. I as one of the few people in the county who understood and liked to work on them. The 4 speeds would float their valves at 92 MPG in third gear.

[35634]

Forgetting the Corvair, are we?

I think he was referring to the current crop of vehicles. Going back 45 years opens the door to a plethora of Vegas, Pintos, Gremlins and Diesel Cadillacs!

[sedanman]

Diesel Cadillacs were trouble free powerhouses compared to diesel Chevettes!

[mika]

It just occurred to me that a Jeep Wrangler is almost cheaper than a BMW GS. The list price on a Jeep Wrangler is 21K. The list price on BMW GS Adventure about the same. I know that a GS is much more fun. But, when did motorcycles start becoming as expensive as cars in the USA ?

Even Harley is expensive. But, the Chinese manufactured Japanese bikes are still pretty cheap.

Why does BMW charge so much for the BMW GS Adventure; Aren't all the parts made in China ?

Depends on what you compare a BMW to.

BMW's archive lists the price of a R32 as 2200RM or according to two conversion sites about $525. A Model A in the 20's was about $240 in 1925 while a Cadillac touring car was about $3,185

H-D is a nice profit driven US company that has found a way to balance production/demand to make a buck. Which Japanese bikes? Priced a Goldwing?

BMW is a nice profit driven German company that has found a way to balance production/demand to make a Euro. No, only some parts are made in China. Which and how many depends on the model.

That bit of historical fun, the rest and a buck will get you a cup of coffee, a bit of change and a very strange look at the Fly-Over-Land coffee shop.

[36654]

Depends on what you compare a BMW to.

BMW's archive lists the price of a R32 as 2200RM or according to two conversion sites about $525. A Model A in the 20's was about $240 in 1925 while a Cadillac touring car was about $3,185

H-D is a nice profit driven US company that has found a way to balance production/demand to make a buck. Which Japanese bikes? Priced a Goldwing?

BMW is a nice profit driven German company that has found a way to balance production/demand to make a Euro. No, only some parts are made in China. Which and how many depends on the model.

That bit of historical fun, the rest and a buck will get you a cup of coffee, a bit of change and a very strange look at the Fly-Over-Land coffee shop.

IMHO, BMW motorcycles has successfully followed the H-D marketing plan and moved to a higher market segment than their mid-1980's target and are dependent on affluent near or recent retirees for new unit sales. However, if you consider the company's automobiles, they've kept their bread and butter 3-series sedan at the mid-30's range for nearly two decades.

So, as you say........it's all marketing.

BTW - the new GS is also about the same cost as a regular cab Toyota Tacoma 4x4.

[mika]

IMHO, BMW motorcycles has successfully followed the H-D marketing plan and moved to a higher market segment than their mid-1980's target and are dependent on affluent near or recent retirees for new unit sales. However, if you consider the company's automobiles, they've kept their bread and butter 3-series sedan at the mid-30's range for nearly two decades.

So, as you say........it's all marketing.

BTW - the new GS is also about the same cost as a regular cab Toyota Tacoma 4x4.

The companies stated market pricing strategy is
- They will compete in selected market segments, not every segment.
- Their target price is the 75% mark of the segments they compete in.

To this point you can very reasonably argue BMW and H-D share similar strategies. Where the diverge is in production and market share goals.

H-D's strategy tends to maximize short term sales. This worked fine in a growing motorcycle market but left them with expensive excess capacity in the down turn along with excess inventories.

BMW has taken a longer term view of production growth to create value through scarcity, match production to demand in the markets they compete in while containing capital expense through maximizing existing production plant capacity and efficiency.

Edit: The one place they have taken something of a different stance is with the S1000RR. Slightly above the Japanese and well below Ducati. Going into a new market segment they needed to be aggressive and were.

Both companies have people that are passionate about bikes but in the end they are publicly held companies that are intended to turn a profit.

[36654]

Both companies have people that are passionate about bikes but in the end they are publicly held companies that are intended to turn a profit.

With the Quandts owning 47%, BMW is a barely public company. HOG on the other hand is 80+% owned by institutional investors.

[HONDARIDER]

I've got a Jeep JK and a GSA...they're both great...no problems from either...but it is shocking that they cost roughly the same amount. I wish I could compare the Bills of Material to see where all the money is. It seems that the Jeep should be more for the sheer quantity of parts and labor...even if the BMW parts are of a higher quality. Makes you wonder what the margins are.

[RoboRider]

A little off topic, but I needed some work done on my 1989 Chevy Silverado. I decided to drive through the USED lot and look at trucks. Maybe trade in the old red. This is USED, mind you, and I saw stickers from 21k to 39k. I promptly drove to the service dept. and dropped her off.

[mika]

With the Quandts owning 47%, BMW is a barely public company. HOG on the other hand is 80+% owned by institutional investors.

On a percentage basis I see your point. In a practical real world the subsequent Quandt family members are far from a monolith in how they behave in the board room or their positions; while institutional investors in have shown a great deal of herd mentality in their treatment of H-D management and board.

[36654]

On a percentage basis I see your point. In a practical real world the subsequent Quandt family members are far from a monolith in how they behave in the board room or their positions; while institutional investors in have shown a great deal of herd mentality in their treatment of H-D management and board.

As usual, you're going to have to admit the errors in your rhetorical position for this discussion to move forward.

BTW - How's your capitalization plan for Mediwet doing?

[mika]

Why?

A good helmet would cover both our points.

[36654]

A good helmet would cover both our points.

Yes, we are arguing over the degree of our agreement on the issue.

[kantuckid]

A little off topic, but I needed some work done on my 1989 Chevy Silverado. I decided to drive through the USED lot and look at trucks. Maybe trade in the old red. This is USED, mind you, and I saw stickers from 21k to 39k. I promptly drove to the service dept. and dropped her off.

Many say buying new is absurd as you get to eat the depreciation. I can say that with hard shopping I pay less for my last 4 new PU's than I see the same truck on the mkt for used. I bought my latest,a 2010 Tundra in May 2009 & I see the exact same truck for more used than I paid & I have 36k on mine now of use. There is a reason for this as many coming on to the lot are looking for the "difference" or the monthly payment amount, not the value. The few real deals in the used car mrkt are hard to come by as you have to find one thats good & good price(thats often unrealistic from private)or perhaps a lease car that they don't want to eat the penalties or poor lease back value given by the dealer.
As to the Jeep thing vs bike price- I see bikes as very poor values for the parts pile you get. They are a much better value used as many get so little use. I drove a J-10 Jeep PU , that I built from a wreck @ 50k,thinking it would work for us as we were broke ( from the Regan interest rates @ 17% on the house I built) & I think it was trying to "break me"over the years. If I have ever owned a piece of "xxxxxxxxxxxxxx!!!" as that truck I'll argue with you on Jeeps anytime! I also had a Jeepster Commando before that based on our house being in 4x4 land & it should have told me something