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    Administrator 20774's Avatar
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    Oil Analysis Update?

    I realize this might become too big to handle, but I've been mulling over the idea of having another round of oils analyzed as it pertains to engine protecting for the Airheads. Obviously everyone's interested in ZDDP, but there are certainly other parameters to consider. My records show that Jeff DiCarlo presented something in the ON late 1999 followed by several updates by Matt Parkhouse in 2002 as well as 2009.

    I work at a company that, along with a wide variety of contract research, does oil testing but mostly for big commercial clients. But I was thinking about asking for some guidance on doing something like this and getting the information published or at least presented here.

    Any thoughts or suggestions? Maybe this would be something to do with the help of Matt...
    Kurt -- Forum Administrator ---> Resources and Links Thread <---
    '78 R100/7 & '69 R69S & '52 R25/2
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    Registered User dmftoy1's Avatar
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    I think I'd read it.

    I realize you'll more than likely use your own facilities but if that's not viable I've had good luck with blackstone labs. They seem to maintain a database of historical averages by different vehicle/engine combos. I've no idea if they have anything related to airheads.

    Good luck!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dmftoy1 View Post
    I think I'd read it.


    Good luck!!
    Yep, me too.

    I think it was on a 911 Porsche site where I last saw extensive oil testing. I think their air-cooled engines have similar requirements to our Airheads.
    14 R1200GSA, 93 R100R. No car is as fun to drive as any motorcycle is to ride.

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    Administrator 20774's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by milo View Post
    I think it was on a 911 Porsche site where I last saw extensive oil testing. I think their air-cooled engines have similar requirements to our Airheads.
    Any chance to see a copy of that to get a sense of their direction...maybe something to build off of?
    Kurt -- Forum Administrator ---> Resources and Links Thread <---
    '78 R100/7 & '69 R69S & '52 R25/2
    mine-ineye-deatheah-pielayah-jooa-kalayus. oolah-minane-hay-meeriah-kal-oyus-algay-a-thaykin', buddy!

  5. #5
    beemerfield
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    I thas been quite some time and I may be way oof base, but it seems like I ead an analysis some time ago and I concluded that the major differences between the oilds came down to Zinc content in BMW oil vs. less in the others. I was under the impression that the Zinc was needed.

    I noticed a commercial last night showing a zinc additive.

    Couldn't we just use "regular" oil and a Zinc additive?
    beemerfield

  6. #6
    Administrator 20774's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogermansfield View Post
    Couldn't we just use "regular" oil and a Zinc additive?
    Search the Airhead forum, or the whole forum, for ZDDP. There have been many posts on the subject.

    IMO, I'm not a fan of playing oil engineer and adding something to the base oil. That is what's done during blending and can be considered a science, at least controlled to a high level...nothing that I want to dabble in. I just don't know how the two items will ultimately combine.

    So, I think the focus of any updated oil analysis will be using stuff that comes straight out of the bottles. Then everyone can make their own decisions about altering what they bought and use.
    Kurt -- Forum Administrator ---> Resources and Links Thread <---
    '78 R100/7 & '69 R69S & '52 R25/2
    mine-ineye-deatheah-pielayah-jooa-kalayus. oolah-minane-hay-meeriah-kal-oyus-algay-a-thaykin', buddy!

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    Superkraut typ181r90's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 20774 View Post
    Any chance to see a copy of that to get a sense of their direction...maybe something to build off of?
    maybe this is the link? I read this awhile back and found it interesting
    http://www.lnengineering.com/oil.html

    fwiw, I'd like to see an analysis on the Liqui Moly Racing 4T, what I use in my airhead and sold by BeemerBoneyard. It is SG rated, but also SJ & SL, and I hate when I see multiple ranges like that
    // 1975 BMW R90/6 (cafe'd) // 1957 BMW R60 (in pieces) // 1967 Aermacchi/H-D Sprint 250 SS (custom special) // 1973 VW Type 181 Custom SOLD )

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    Administrator 20774's Avatar
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    That is a good reference...I've saved it...somewhere. I was thinking that we're more after the chemical makeup of various oils, especially the ones that everyone likes to us (within reason!) so we can see how well WallyWorld oil stacks up to the boutique oils. I, too, hate to see the multiple gradings...Snowbum's discussion of this warps my mind! Likely we'd have a range of dino and synth oils.
    Kurt -- Forum Administrator ---> Resources and Links Thread <---
    '78 R100/7 & '69 R69S & '52 R25/2
    mine-ineye-deatheah-pielayah-jooa-kalayus. oolah-minane-hay-meeriah-kal-oyus-algay-a-thaykin', buddy!

  9. #9
    Benchwrenching PGlaves's Avatar
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    Excellent idea. Jeff DiCarlo did a good job. Those were very thorough tests and that might be a good model for a do-over.

    If you get further I'd be glad to do a write-up for my bench wrenching column, and would also be glad to help pick candidate oils for testing.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
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  10. #10
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    Paul -

    I definitely planned to go back and read all the articles and approaches that were done before as part of the "homework". Chemical analysis of oil can get pretty far afield, so I'd want to focus on the things that affect the older engines the most. I don't know if this can be determined as part of these test, but I'd like to know where in the range of oil rating (say 20w50) the oil stands. IIRC, an oil can be blended so that it meets the minimum requirements of the range but it would seem with miles of use on the oil, the range could decrease down into the 20w40+ area. If you knew an oil was blended to be quite high in the viscosity range, then the possiblity exists that it was stay in grade for a longer period of time.

    Narrowing the field of oils would certain be a chore and should be done properly. Obviously, there are many brands and viscosities. Owning three bikes (and a car) that really require the SG/SH oils, I've been sensitive to that and have paid attention when people mention one brand or the other and how good it is. On the /2 forums, Vech has been keeping up with oils that he recommends and we've found that critical elements, like ZDDP, have changed without the owners knowing it. My friend has a '66 R60/2 which has shed material from the lifter faces. He was using a Shell product IIRC, believed to have plenty of ZDDP, but the levels changed without him knowing it. He is know facing an engine overhaul. I'm going to be part of engine removal team!
    Kurt -- Forum Administrator ---> Resources and Links Thread <---
    '78 R100/7 & '69 R69S & '52 R25/2
    mine-ineye-deatheah-pielayah-jooa-kalayus. oolah-minane-hay-meeriah-kal-oyus-algay-a-thaykin', buddy!

  11. #11
    Registered User helmut_head's Avatar
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    Yo Kurt, that's what I mean. The artificial aging test might be representative for some of us. But, for example, with different levels of fuel dilution (rings), soot build up, etc, different oils will give various results. Unless you run an entire matrix, but then what do you have? Which oil would one choose? Hmmm.....unless there is a true standout with every level of a good designed experiment.

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  12. #12
    Registered User helmut_head's Avatar
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    Hmmmm.....so? Let's just all religiously change our oil and filters.

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