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Thread: Cough Klunk Locked

  1. #1
    Benchwrenching PGlaves's Avatar
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    Cough Klunk Locked

    For health related reasons caused by way too much wildfire smoke, my F650 Dakar single was parked in a storage unit in Montana for just over two weeks. We took a trailer to retrieve the bikes. The F650 was a little hard to start and smelled flooded but did start, and ran fine. I rode it from the storage unit about 300 feet to where the trailer was parked for an easy level no-ramp loading. Almost to the trailer it coughed once, almost like a little backfire, with a slight clank. When I tried to restart it it wouldn't turn over. It acted like a weak battery which didn't surprise me at the time since I had to do a lot of cranking to get it to start the first time. We rolled it onto the trailer and hauled it home to Texas from Montana.

    I put a charger on the battery overnight. Still clicking from the relay but no cranking. Suspecting a bad battery I used jumper cables attached to the battery in my Ford Explorer. Click click but no crank.

    I removed and inspected and tested the starter. It was fine. I removed the spark plug so I wasn't fighting compression and tried to turn the engine by turning the rear wheel. It wouldn't turn. The wheel turns fine in neutral and if the clutch is pulled. Next I removed the countershaft sprocket cover and attempted to turn the countershaft using the appropriate 30mm socket and my longest 1/2" drive handle. In gear it won't turn more than to take up gear slack in either direction.

    The engine is locked up tight in both directions.

    When it died it had been running maybe one minute. It wasn't overheated or even revved much. I just was riding it towards and about 3 feet from the trailer at a speed and rpm suitable for riding it off the street and onto a level trailer.

    I can offhand think of a few things that could break and prevent rotation in the normal direction - a valve head jammed between the piston and head for example - but am having trouble visualizing what might block it solidly in both directions.

    I don't like this bike well enough to want to pull the engine for a teardown/rebuild, but if there is something that is known to cause such symptoms - failed pump gear or something - I would go in one side or the other for a look see.

    Otherwise, I will have a carcass or boat anchor for sale or I'll part it out. But before I do that if anybody has had a similar failure, (or had a friend with one, or heard about one) with a good idea or two, I'm looking for wisdom.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
    "The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution." - Bertrand Russell
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  2. #2
    Survivor akbeemer's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Well Paul, since you don't seem to be getting any response to your post and I certainly have nothing to offer on the problem, I thought I'd at least raise your spirits. Be happy you are where you are. Up here the cough aspect of your dilemma would be much worse....



    MONTANA FIRES AND SMOKE 9/11/2012
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  3. #3
    ABC,AMA(LIFE),MOA,RA,IBMW MANICMECHANIC's Avatar
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    Any chance you can take a look through the spark plug hole to see what you can see? Locked up in both directions sounds like maybe camchain broke and wrapped around the crank sprocket.
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  4. #4
    Benchwrenching PGlaves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AKBeemer View Post
    Well Paul, since you don't seem to be getting any response to your post and I certainly have nothing to offer on the problem, I thought I'd at least raise your spirits. Be happy you are where you are. Up here the cough aspect of your dilemma would be much worse....



    MONTANA FIRES AND SMOKE 9/11/2012
    I know. We drove along wearing particle masks on part of this retrieval trip.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
    "The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution." - Bertrand Russell
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  5. #5
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    Not real obvious but it sounds like something has jammed a geared part.
    Anything known to break and jam into a gear set or chain on these?

    Glad we don't have to breath smoke around here. Last year we had what was for NC some pretty large fires but smoke issues were minimal- mostly just the smell in some locations. Got to be no fun if one has any history of asthma or breathing problems..

    Understand the bike may not be of enough interest to tackle the fix but I'd be curious to know exactly what broke...

  6. #6
    Benchwrenching PGlaves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by racer7 View Post
    Understand the bike may not be of enough interest to tackle the fix but I'd be curious to know exactly what broke...
    Me too. After I gain control of a few other mechanical issues such as a spline lube on my R1150R and a complete major service plus fork seals on Voni's F800S I may well go exploring in the F650 motor.

    Meanwhile, we each have a K75 to ride too.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
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  7. #7
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    Also thinking about whether a broken or jumped chain could be wedged into something...

    Glad my "to do" list is shorter than yours and only maintenance at the moment rather than repairs.

  8. #8
    NC Piedmont Rider ncstephen's Avatar
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    curious..
    Any news on this bike Paul?
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    Is the starter direct or a chain drive

    I have never even looked at a parts fiche for one of these bikes. Is it possible that something in the starter drive mechanism in the engine and separate from the starter motor has come loose. I had an old Honda SL 350 KO that dropped the starter chain and stuck that thing like the cylinders were full of JB weld.

    If the starter stayed engaged while it was being ridden 300' and its got a chain and clutch type engaging mechanism its possible it let go and has jammed it up.

  10. #10
    Registered User mneblett's Avatar
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    The locked in both directions is a stumper.

    Maybe an issue with one of the two oil pump drive gears or the pump intermediate gear? If something jammed the oil pump gears under the left cover, the crank would be locked by the gear on the clutch basket. Maybe something jammed between the pump gears, or a "loose" gear -- the "clank" would be consistent with something getting jammed in that gear train and instantly arresting the crank movement.
    Mark Neblett
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  11. #11
    Benchwrenching PGlaves's Avatar
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    I have been busy doing other projects. I have to keep the working bikes fully up to snuff before I tackle this project of unknown duration. I agree that it probably is gears jammed somewhere in the starter drive on the right or the pump on the left. Oh my, where to start.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
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  12. #12
    Registered User der verge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PGlaves View Post
    Oh my, where to start.
    Start by removing the starter. You say it matters not the state of the battery's charge, the starter will not crank. You could have a bad starter relay, or the starter is in the extended (start) position, and siezed. This would also sieze the engine.
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  13. #13
    Benchwrenching PGlaves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by der verge View Post
    Start by removing the starter. You say it matters not the state of the battery's charge, the starter will not crank. You could have a bad starter relay, or the starter is in the extended (start) position, and siezed. This would also sieze the engine.
    Thanks. I have already removed and tested the starter. It is fine. This particular model has a constantly engaged starter with a one-way sprag clutch. It is possible gears in the mechanism that connects the starter through the sprag clutch to the crankshaft are jammed, but it isn't the starter unit itself.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
    "The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution." - Bertrand Russell
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  14. #14
    Survivor akbeemer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PGlaves View Post
    Oh my, where to start.
    I may still be able to lay my hands on a thermite grenade.... just an option.
    Kevin Huddy
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  15. #15
    MOA #24991 Pauls1150's Avatar
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    Speaking of the valve head - do these use two-piece valves??? As in the old Harleys, where the pieces were welded together. Yes it is possible for the broken piece to lock it all up tight.

    My '70 CH ate three valves heads - each in a separate occasion - and a friend's Shovel also dropped one but spit it out the exhaust port (we found it when the pipe was off).
    I also had a CB350 with the chain problem (but that was also partly my fault).

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