New [to me] K1200LT '02

[71243]

A friend works in a bike shop that sells two other brands, they took a 2002 K1200LT in trade, that he says is "tacky" 53000 miles, needs a rear tire, seat is split but it runs fine, all there , and everything works. He offered it to me at a low-ball price. Said the dealer just doesn't want to put into it what it would need, to make it showroom worthy. And the guy took a low-ball trade-in for it.

He [my friend] is bringing it by tomorrow for me too see.

I've always been an "R" guy but like the "Ks" So...tell me what to look for and why I should buy it. Must admit, I've about decided to buy it, due to price . Nice winter project, and heck might end-up with another motorcycle I like!!

Ron

[RBEmerson]

OK - truthiness time: I have no great love for the LT. IMHO, it's a Gold Wing with a Bavarian accent. And that ain't a compliment about Gold Wings (well, OK, "Nie im Leben w??rde ich zu Bayern gehen!" - if you know Die Toten Hosen band [and German] this makes sense, too). Enough...

Cracked seat, low-ball trade, dealer thinks it's too spendy to prep and put on the floor... these are not good signs. The LT has more "toys" on it than the RS or GT from the same period - that means it's going to be more expensive to put right. Forget the 53000 on the clock. That, by itself, isn't a problem for at ten year old BMW. But all of this has the feel of surprises lurking in dark corners.

Without seeing the bike, who the heck knows what's going on. But sitting in my office on a Wed. morning... pass.

[rmcclure]

When I bought my '99 LT, it had 93,000 km (about 55,000 miles)on it. Seat had the split, and still does. The split hasn't moved much and the bike now has 180,000 km. Like your situation, the dealer didn't sell BMW and was unable to answer some questions, but was willing to allow a test ride and to allow me to take it to the local BMW dealer for a prepurchase review/inspection. That answered my questions as well as giving me information on which to base my offer to the dealer. Maybe that would work for you if you have a good BMW dealer in your area.

During the time I have had the bike, the only thing that needed to be fixed outside of regular maintenance was replacing the slave cylinder on the clutch at around 100,000 miles. Hope this helps.

[71243]

Thanks for the replies. As far as mechanical problems, sure i expect to see a few on a 10 year old motorcycle, or at least the potential for them. But I am a retired [30+] year mechanic, much of it spent on police motorcycles, so [that] part doesn't really [scare] me..yes parts are expensive , if their needed . As far as the gadgets?..most of them I don't need, wouldn't care about, radio,electric cruise, that sort of stuff means nothing too me. Run,stop,steer is my focus. Just always wanted to try one, without laying out big $$ to do so.

Are they hot?, are they as comfortable as I've been told? Do they handle, reasonably well? Is the sitting position relaxed?,cramped, laid back?. Is there any room in the luggage? I do not like the trunk, it just looks so high too me, and makes the motorcycle look top-heavy. A local guy rides his around here without it, and for a large 'touring' motorcycle is looks much better,,{IMO}.

Ron

[42906]

I'm not a fan of the 1200s. To turn the previous K-1100 engine into a 1200 cc mill, BMW had only one option, lengthen the stroke. The cylinder walls were already taken to their minimum thickness when BMW poked that engine out from a 1000 cc mill to the 1100.
What happened when lengthing the stroke is that BMW had to shorten the con rod. Now the con rod length to stroke ration is lousy, and the engine has a harsh power delivery. Because the thing is in a big heavy aluminum beam frame and rubber mounted you don't notice the harshness, but these engines jack hammer drive lines. Final drives and drive shafts do not live as long on the 1200s as they do on the 1000s and 1100s with their more favorable con rod lengths, especiall the 1100 which has the longest con rod of the three. You can see evidence of what I say in the much heavier cam chain tensioner and guide rails used on the 1200's. The racheting power delivery of the 1200 really whips the cam chain! Were you to graph rpm over time, it would be a jagged line that looked like the blade of a saw, while the same graph of the earlier, shorter stroke bikes with their longer con rods would look more like a sine wave.
The 1200s are also prone to high rpm detonation. BMW is making quite a bit of power from an old architecture and most BMWs use a pretty aggressive ignition advance curve. That is ok with the high octane unleaded gas available in Germany but there is no knock sensor on these engines and with urine poor US gas and high enough temperatures you can encounter high rpm detonation on these bikes where you wouldn't on the earlier K bikes. This form of detonation cannot be heard and it results in pitting of the Nikasil and a ruined engine.
I am no fan of the 1200 engine. The best K bike engine was the K-1100. It is the smoothest by far.

[cehlbeck]

Thanks for the replies. As far as mechanical problems, sure i expect to see a few on a 10 year old motorcycle, or at least the potential for them. But I am a retired [30+] year mechanic, much of it spent on police motorcycles, so [that] part doesn't really [scare] me..yes parts are expensive , if their needed . As far as the gadgets?..most of them I don't need, wouldn't care about, radio,electric cruise, that sort of stuff means nothing too me. Run,stop,steer is my focus. Just always wanted to try one, without laying out big $$ to do so.

Are they hot?, are they as comfortable as I've been told? Do they handle, reasonably well? Is the sitting position relaxed?,cramped, laid back?. Is there any room in the luggage? I do not like the trunk, it just looks so high too me, and makes the motorcycle look top-heavy. A local guy rides his around here without it, and for a large 'touring' motorcycle is looks much better,,{IMO}.

Ron

Until you're used her she can be top heavy at parking log speeds. Are they hot? Not any hotter than any other large cc engine but when the fans kick on they can blow warm air on your shins. Do they handle? On a twisty road with the revs high, it handles like it's on rails. It thinks at times that it's an 850 pound sport bike.

We went on a week long trip riding 2 up last fall on the BRP. We were on the road everyday. We added a bag on luggage rack that we never expanded fully and really only put things like jacket liners and hats in the bag anyway. So there was plenty of room.

[71243]

Well my friend did bring it over, it needs tires..not a big deal, it needs a battery, to be expected, but it does have a constant flash of the ABS warning light that does not go out. But the brakes work fine, excellent actually , runs good, [a-bit of surge] but you can smell old gas, likely that ? Cosmetics ? I think the paint is mostly embedded with dirt , one spot I gave a little luv to, started shining up, ....mostly elbow grease work, no damage , except one little spot on the left bag. And the switches are all faded out. The seat is dry rotted, as are the rear speaker pods. Which [if] I buy will be taken off, that damn trunk weighs a ton. So I made an offer, see what they say?

P.S. I do not like the way the side stand deploys and stops...is there an aftermarket fix for that? It seems like it could easily roll off .

[cehlbeck]

Did you ride it and the ABS never stopped flashing? It should stop once you start moving. If you started it and didn't ride it, the ABS will continue to flash. A low battery could cause it too (I've heard here and on BMWLT.COM). Low fluid would cause the warning lights to "wig wag". To reach both brake reservoirs you'd need to remove the rear seat.

[mneblett]

Are they hot?, are they as comfortable as I've been told? Do they handle, reasonably well? Is the sitting position relaxed?,cramped, laid back?. Is there any room in the luggage? I do not like the trunk, it just looks so high too me, and makes the motorcycle look top-heavy. A local guy rides his around here without it, and for a large 'touring' motorcycle is looks much better,,{IMO}.

Ron

Contrary to all the negative comments, I believe the LT is a *great* touring mount, and a very good commuter. Over the course of a decade I owned four LT's (all bought new), and the 2002 was my favorite. I used mine primarily for daily commuting into DC (lots of weather protection, lots of storage for suit coat, briefcase, riding gear, etc., and enough "gadgets" to keep me entertained). I also toured and pulled a Bushtec trailer, which they handled very well.

The weather protection of an LT is the best of any BMW I've owned in more than 30 years (BMW actually has a patent on the diagonal strakes under the tip-over bars for rain deflection away from the rider).

Nor is heat a problem -- in fact, I was amazed at the heat control on the LT. As long as you keep your legs behind the fairing lowers (the normal riding position), none of the hot air from the radiators impinges on the rider.

They are heavy, but once over 2-3 mph, my experience was that 2-300 lbs "disappeared." The long handlebars give great leverage so maneuvering is "light as a feather." This is the #1 difference between the LT and the GoldWing -- I really drove mine like a sport-tourer, not a grand-tourer/luxobarge.

On the engine, contrary to the comments above, the rod/stroke ratio did not "ruin" the flying brick engine. The smoothness of the 1200 and its suspension in the massive, rigid frame backbone was one of the things I most enjoyed about the bike -- although the superb, confidence-inspiring handling was a close second.

If you don't like the trunk, take it off and store it -- there is a noticeable reduction in "top-heaviness" at zero/near-zero speed with the trunk removed.

On the flashing ABS lights, while the problem may be a dying/dead ABS unit ($$$), the LT's are well known for triggering a warning when the rear brake reservoir drops just a hair. A low battery can also trigger a low-voltage fault during the ABS system's start-up diagnostic tests.

Another source of ABS lights, particularly in the earlier LTs, is a broken wire in the rear ABS/speed sensor line. BMW's assembly line workers usually installed a zip-tie securing the rear ABS/Speed sensor harness *way* too tight at the front of the swingarm, and after a couple years the wires within the sheath would break over the edge of the bracket to which the harness was zip-tied (EDIT: just remembered -- the harness is zip-tied to the metal fitting of the rear brake hose line, and the wire breaks over the end of the metal fitting). If the speedo is also wacky (or not functioning), that's usually a confirmation of the zip-tie issue.

As you are a mechanic, and have time on your hands, I doubt that the massive amount of tupperware and fuel tank removal to do things like change the air filter and reach the electrical relay boxes will be a problem.

In sum, if the price is right, I'd definitely be willing to take the chance that the ABS unit isn't dead. If that's a concern for you, please PM me the location and price for the bike (as long as it's not one of the Toscana Green models! )

HTH!

[71243]

Contrary to all the negative comments, I believe the LT is a *great* touring mount, and a very good commuter. Over the course of a decade I owned four LT's (all bought new), and the 2002 was my favorite. I used mine primarily for daily commuting into DC (lots of weather protection, lots of storage for suit coat, briefcase, riding gear, etc., and enough "gadgets" to keep me entertained). I also toured and pulled a Bushtec trailer, which they handled very well.

The weather protection of an LT is the best of any BMW I've owned in more than 30 years (BMW actually has a patent on the diagonal srtakes under the tip-over bars for rain deflection away from the rider).

Nor is heat a problem -- in fact, I was amazed at the heat control on the LT. As long as you keep your legs behind the fairing lowers (the normal riding position), none of the hot air from the radiators impinges on the rider.

They are heavy, but once over 2-3 mph, my experience was that 2-300 lbs "disappeared." The long handlebars give great leverage so maneuvering is "light as a feather." This is the #1 difference between the LT and the GoldWing -- I really drove mine like a sport-tourer, not a grand-tourer/luxobarge.

On the engine, contrary to the comments above, the rod/stroke ratio did not "ruin" the flying brick engine. The smoothness of the 1200 and its suspension in the massive, rigid frame backbone was one of the things I most enjoyed about the bike -- although the superb, confidence-inspiring handling was a close second.

If you don't like the trunk, take it off and store it -- there is a noticeable reduction in "top-heaviness" at zero/near-zero speed with the trunk removed.

On the flashing ABS lights, while the problem may be a dying/dead ABS unit ($$$), the LT's are well known for triggering a warning when the rear brake reservoir drops just a hair. A low battery can also trigger a low-voltage fault during the ABS system's start-up diagnostic tests.

Another source of ABS lights, particularly in the earlier LTs, is a broken wire in the rear ABS/speed sensor line. BMW's assembly line workers usually installed a zip-tie securing the rear ABS/Speed sensor harness *way* too tight at the front of the swingarm, and after a couple years the wires within the sheath would break over the edge of the bracket to which the harness was zip-tied. If the speedo is also wacky (or not functioning), that's usually a confirmation of the zip-tie issue.

As you are a mechanic, and have time on your hands, I doubt that the massive amount of tupperware and fuel tank removal to do things like change the air filter and reach the electrical relay boxes will be a problem.

In sum, if the price is right, I'd definitely be willing to take the chance that the ABS unit isn't dead. If that's a concern for you, please PM me the location and price for the bike (as long as it's not one of the Toscana Green models! )

HTH!

Mark,

At the price range we're in, I'm not even too worried about the possible $$ on the ABS. 2500-3000 range. Oddly enough I LUV the Toscana green go figure. This one is silver. My friend is going to try & get them to come to my price, but I will go up too theirs if need be.

Ron

[RBEmerson]

Mneblett has pretty well nailed it, particularly on the ABS issue. One thing that hasn't come around, though, is the "smell of gas" thing. Check the quick disconnect fittings (two of them) near the gas tank. BMW used plastic parts that fail (part of the male connector snaps off), leaving a real chance of spilled gas. Not Good. There are any number of sources (e.g., Beemerboneyard) for metal quick disconnects. Do that one ASAP.

The LT was designed to get down the road smoothly and quickly (OK, the GT and RS are meant to do that, too, but with increasing amounts of gusto) and it will go around corners quite well. It's just that darn tiller steering isn't going to be a big plus when you're really moving the front wheel around.

BTW, you may find that pulling the trunk it a bigger deal than you think. It really is a major design element in the LT. Think about getting it right and living with it. I think you'll ultimately be glad you did. Ditto for the toys - they're much of what makes the LT an LT.

[patiodadio]

My buddy has a 01 K1200LT and I have ridden it quite a bit. At slow speed it can be a hand full but over all its a very nice bike that you can ride anywhere in comfort. I say go for it. Post a pic if you get the bike.



.

[71243]

Mneblett has pretty well nailed it, particularly on the ABS issue. One thing that hasn't come around, though, is the "smell of gas" thing. Check the quick disconnect fittings (two of them) near the gas tank. BMW used plastic parts that fail (part of the male connector snaps off), leaving a real chance of spilled gas. Not Good. There are any number of sources (e.g., Beemerboneyard) for metal quick disconnects. Do that one ASAP.

The LT was designed to get down the road smoothly and quickly (OK, the GT and RS are meant to do that, too, but with increasing amounts of gusto) and it will go around corners quite well. It's just that darn tiller steering isn't going to be a big plus when you're really moving the front wheel around.

BTW, you may find that pulling the trunk it a bigger deal than you think. It really is a major design element in the LT. Think about getting it right and living with it. I think you'll ultimately be glad you did. Ditto for the toys - they're much of what makes the LT an LT.

"The smell of gas thing" was in the exhaust, you could smell it was old gas being burned. Not any sort of leak & such.

Not to argue, too each-his-own...but no, the trunk's gotta go, just to big and bulky. Under it is a nice flat platform and, it will allow mounting a plate for a detachable, Krauser / Givi? I have both on the shelf in the garage.

Same goes for the radio & CD. I have no interest in music on a motorcycle, and would like the extra room in the r/bag. [If] the radio can be removed neatly, it's gone as well.

Yeah i know I'm weird,...as i said...I like the Tuscana Green....

[mneblett]

"The smell of gas thing" was in the exhaust, you could smell it was old gas being burned. Not any sort of leak & such.

Not to argue, too each-his-own...but no, the trunk's gotta go, just to big and bulky. Under it is a nice flat platform and, it will allow mounting a plate for a detachable, Krauser / Givi? I have both on the shelf in the garage.

Same goes for the radio & CD. I have no interest in music on a motorcycle, and would like the extra room in the r/bag. [If] the radio can be removed neatly, it's gone as well.

Yeah i know I'm weird,...as i said...I like the Tuscana Green....

Definitely a matter of personal preference. Whatever color trips your trigger, go for it!

The trunk is easy to remove -- remove the rear seat to disconnect the electrical barrel connector, then remove the 4 Allen button-head bolts in the floor of the trunk. Lift off the trunk and replace the bolts in the black plastic tray under trunk.

As to the radio/CD changer, again to each theIr own -- personally I had no use for a radio -- until I had one (much like heated grips).

I'm all for removing the CD changer, though. In my case, I plugged a Blitzsafe adapter into the changer harness (after pulling the harness from the saddlebag and installing a weather-proof plug in the bag) and plugged in an iPod, stashed in the glove box. A win-win -- a lot more saddlebag room, and days of music available in place of a limited CD selection.

[71243]

Definitely a matter of personal preference. Whatever color trips your trigger, go for it!

The trunk is easy to remove -- remove the rear seat to disconnect the electrical barrel connector, then remove the 4 Allen button-head bolts in the floor of the trunk. Lift off the trunk and replace the bolts in the black plastic tray under trunk.

As to the radio/CD changer, again to each theIr own -- personally I had no use for a radio -- until I had one (much like heated grips).

I'm all for removing the CD changer, though. In my case, I plugged a Blitzsafe adapter into the changer harness (after pulling the harness from the saddlebag and installing a weather-proof plug in the bag) and plugged in an iPod, stashed in the glove box. A win-win -- a lot more saddlebag room, and days of music available in place of a limited CD selection.

Mark,

Thanks for the trunk tip. Just in case I am at least going to [try] the radio,..but I seldom listen to the one in my truck. But yes CD is out . [If] I would for some reason start to get into the music thing ?....I'll look into something like you have.

BTW confirmed the buy today, $3k + tax.

So now, I start looking for seat repair / replace options . Going to order a set of Continental tires,....winter's coming ....plenty of time to get it together.
I have my Roadster to ride.
Ron