1150rt 3200 rpm vibration

[khelsea]

Just a question but on my 02 1150 to reset the motronic is that a 2 or 4 and is it the same rest procedure ie pull fuse 5 and twist? I will have more to this story tommrow. Those QD's get them changed, vibration could make them squirt at any time,can you spell fire truck?

Khelsea

I would think that you feel injectors more than in just a narrow range. I was curious about the cold run that I recommended earlier since it might give a clue whether the vibrations were mechanical or AFR related.

It's possible that your bike has misadapted to the O2 sensor. Another thing you could try as a temporary test would be to reset your Motronic by pulling fuse 5 for a couple minutes. Then relearning the TPS by rotating the throttle twice with the key on but not started. See what happens the first time you run it.

There are lots of ways to tackle this and there are other good approaches in the thread.
RB

[PAS]

I dont know if this is on the same line as being discussed.I just got back from the Finger Lakes rally in Watkins Glen and noticed how badly my 03 1150RT runs in slow traffic in first gear. It constantly surges and is very annoying! Runs fine at highway speed..

I ran a mixture of Seafoam and Tectron thur it on the 300 mile trip there. It didnt seem to help that problem. Bike has16,000 miles on it. The valves were adjust and TB's synched 4000 miles ago and has done it since I owned it for over a year.

[jhgilbert]

Surge is always dealt with in steps, since most bikes will respond to different solutions. Most of the solutions are good. In no particulate order:

1) Autolite 3922 or 3923 spark plugs. Double check the part number...if I remember correctly, one is for R1100 and the other is for 1150. Gap is .035 inch.

2) Pulling cat-code plug. Bike will run in fail-safe, rich, limp home mode. It will likely overheat and ruin your cat in addition to pumping unnecessary hydrocarbons into the air. Least favorable solution, but cheapest and easiest.

3) Fuel injection modification. Techlusion (~$300), BoosterPlug (~$100), Wideband O2 sensor (~$150-200). BoosterPlug is plug and play simple. Others require varying degrees of tinkering.

4) Seafoam/Marvel Mystery Oil/Techron. Have to experiment, but will take some surge out.

5) New O2 sensor (~$125). Sensors begin wearing out at about 35k and respond more slowly, which causes the ECU to function poorly as well. They can also get poisoned by lead.

6) Tuning. As designed, the bike will run surge-free most of the time if it is in perfect tune. this involves setting the rocker end gap, valve adjustment, spark plugs, O2 sensor, wires, coil and injectors. Most dealerships can't make money ferreting all the gremlins out of your bike, so don't expect a perfect running, surge-free, stock bike if you don't want to tinker with it. Try one of the other solutions.

I may have missed something, but generally these bikes didn't surge when new and all systems were factory fresh. With some tinkering and detective work, yours can get back to is state. Of course, this is only my opinion.

[Roger 04 RT]

That's a decent list. During my Wideband O2 project I saw some things and would add the following thoughts:

Referencing the above items:

2) on 1150 I would run the stock Coding Plug. I've measured it and no-plug isn't richer but does vary the AFR leaner and richer. In an attempt, I think, to keep the cat converter functioning. On the 1100, no-plug is, I believe, a richer mixture to support the CO Pot. That is one of the data points that helped me to realize that these bikes can run better with a richer mixture. It won't overheat the cat but a mis-firing engine will.

3) The Techlusion is harder to set due to no measurement capability and it runs Open Loop when it adds fuel. BoosterPlug effects may be adapted out.

4) injectors that are or become unbalanced can quickly lead to closed loop surging.

RB

[khelsea]

My 1150 it surged terribly until I did a very carefull valve adjust and syncro then it went away or at least 80% so somewhat satisfied. I actually would kill on occasion. So anyway my vibration at 3250 has greatly diminished, not gone away but better. Now to what I did. I reset the left TB cable to have maybe 3mm of freeplay as per Paul, remember all this started from that change. I cleaned the BBS's with carb clean , get in there with a flashlite and make sure. In checking the free play of the rocker arm shafts I found I couldn.t get any feeler gage in there so out to .003 and then set the valve lash to 15 and 30 with just a SLIGHT drag on the feelers. Set up my Morgan carb tune and adjusted the BBS' for zero and right TB cable at zero 2500 RPM. So again it's not perfect but much better so maybe it is what it is. Put a hundred on Sunday and all has stayed the same. I don't like the amount of vibes at 3250 because it appears more than it had been but at least my hands don't go to sleep. Maybe the rest of the season will tell more. I'll be at the Tomah rally so maybe we'll see some of you fine folks there.If anybody has any special thoughts about whats happened here please chime in. Interesting day yesterday I pull out in a 65MPH zone in front of two cars go up to 75 the no vibe zone and instantly get passed by the LEO. Must be the high vis helmet I have. Thanks everyone for your inputs and Paul you get better. Khelsea

Surge is always dealt with in steps, since most bikes will respond to different solutions. Most of the solutions are good. In no particulate order:

1) Autolite 3922 or 3923 spark plugs. Double check the part number...if I remember correctly, one is for R1100 and the other is for 1150. Gap is .035 inch.

2) Pulling cat-code plug. Bike will run in fail-safe, rich, limp home mode. It will likely overheat and ruin your cat in addition to pumping unnecessary hydrocarbons into the air. Least favorable solution, but cheapest and easiest.

3) Fuel injection modification. Techlusion (~$300), BoosterPlug (~$100), Wideband O2 sensor (~$150-200). BoosterPlug is plug and play simple. Others require varying degrees of tinkering.

4) Seafoam/Marvel Mystery Oil/Techron. Have to experiment, but will take some surge out.

5) New O2 sensor (~$125). Sensors begin wearing out at about 35k and respond more slowly, which causes the ECU to function poorly as well. They can also get poisoned by lead.

6) Tuning. As designed, the bike will run surge-free most of the time if it is in perfect tune. this involves setting the rocker end gap, valve adjustment, spark plugs, O2 sensor, wires, coil and injectors. Most dealerships can't make money ferreting all the gremlins out of your bike, so don't expect a perfect running, surge-free, stock bike if you don't want to tinker with it. Try one of the other solutions.

I may have missed something, but generally these bikes didn't surge when new and all systems were factory fresh. With some tinkering and detective work, yours can get back to is state. Of course, this is only my opinion.

[jhgilbert]

Good advice above from Roger and Khelsea. The part I differ with on Khelsea is that if you use Paul's method of syncing, you do it in the following order:

1) Clean, then sync using the big brass screws at idle.
2) Set the left hand throttle cable (3 mm sounds about right).
3) Sync right hand throttle body using throttle cable only, at slightly above idle, say about 2000 rpm rather than 3200 or 4000. Watch the CarbTune as you blip the throttle. You may have to hold the adjustment screw as you tighten the lock nut. It will change your sync slightly. You may have to set the adjustment screw slightly out of sync, so that when you tighten the lock nut, it brings the TB into sync. It takes a bit of time and sneaking up on the sweetspot, but it's worth it.

I've done the sync at higher rpms (4000 rpm) and now I use 2000 rpm. As you open the throttle, the butterfly in the throttle body opens. But at the smallest openings, the difference between the right and left throttle bodies is greatest. At larger throttlebody openings, say about 4000 rpm, the difference in the butterfly opening between the right and left TBs is less. Try the sync at 2000 rpm and watch for the sneaky adjustment screw that wants to go out of sync as you tighten the lock nut. It makes a world of difference.

[PGlaves]

Here is my shorter rather than longer comment. You are using vacuum as a surrogate for air flow as a surrogate for throttle plate angle. All depend on the cross section of the opening between the throttle plate and surrounding opening in the throttle body. The lower the rpm the smaller the narrow crescent through which the air flows. And any slight difference in throttle plate angle will result in the greatest difference in air flow and vacuum. So synching at idle - and then synching the cables just off idle will result in the greatest vacuum change with the slightest difference in throttle plate position.

If you do this and it is off at higher rpm then factors other than throttle synch are at work: differences in valve adjustments, deposits on valve heads, etc. can affect air flow and vacuum. But synching at higher rpm just masks these problems.

I might do it in the short term to smooth the bike at road speed to get home but I believe in synching the throttle plates and then pursuing any other problems that mess it up if it happens at higher rpm.

[khelsea]

Well I thought I had it but still vibs at 3250 and buzzin the rest. I agree with Paul on the syncro hiding other probs and everyone that 3250 is too low in 6th. So anyway I've done the techcron treatment and now going to throw some Seafoam in her. Except for my long trips my daily commute is 8 miles one way. Thought for the group could a failing input shaft show as a vibe at that RPM? I'm sure getting tired of taking off all that tupperware. Thanks for everyone for there input. Khelsea

Here is my shorter rather than longer comment. You are using vacuum as a surrogate for air flow as a surrogate for throttle plate angle. All depend on the cross section of the opening between the throttle plate and surrounding opening in the throttle body. The lower the rpm the smaller the narrow crescent through which the air flows. And any slight difference in throttle plate angle will result in the greatest difference in air flow and vacuum. So synching at idle - and then synching the cables just off idle will result in the greatest vacuum change with the slightest difference in throttle plate position.

If you do this and it is off at higher rpm then factors other than throttle synch are at work: differences in valve adjustments, deposits on valve heads, etc. can affect air flow and vacuum. But synching at higher rpm just masks these problems.

I might do it in the short term to smooth the bike at road speed to get home but I believe in synching the throttle plates and then pursuing any other problems that mess it up if it happens at higher rpm.