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Thread: Uneven lanes

  1. #16
    Registered User AKsuited's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 182242 View Post
    Just about a year ago, on Labor Day weekend, I was riding back to the Chicago area, with my brother, from a Goldwing rally in Arkansas.
    It might be too late for legal action, but I would contact a personal injury lawyer and ask if any legal action would be appropriate.

    Contractors are famous for paving all day or all week in one lane and then matching up lanes when they feel like it. Contractor and even owner sense of responsibility towards motorcyclists is essentially nil. They don't care. A juicy lawsuit might just force them to care.

    On one of my recent "mill & fill" projects, we milled out pavement and paved it back. The contractor wanted to go all day in one lane and catch it back the next. I had my engineer pressure him into catching up the paving that same day so that there would be no "edge trap" (uneven pavement) overnight. We progressed the project that way and avoided risk to motorcyclists.

    That's a key: if you think edge traps are dangerous during the day, what about at night when it would be impossible to see edge traps?

    Harry
    2003 R1150RT - Silver

  2. #17
    Debbie's Servant Lee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tommcgee View Post
    When you're riding over an obstacle you should give it some juice to lift a bit of weight off the front wheel.
    I was just trying to point out it's not a problem to climb up to a higher lane when going slow, but it can be a problem if you're going 60 MPH.
    Lee 2011 K1300S
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  3. #18
    Dee G flymymbz's Avatar
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    They are re-doing a portion of Hwy 2 between my house and where I work. Gotta say, the contractor here is doing an awesome job. The acceleration lanes are still grooved, but drop off edge is sloped, so there no sudden 3" vertical lip, and the grooved portion is rideable at 60 mph. And on the highway itself, there's a 300 yd or so portion that's still grooved (bridge deck), but the start/stop point for the grooved part has a sloped ramp to it, so no drop off there either.

    They'll do a 1/4 mile stretch on one lane, and go back and do the other. At one point, they removed a section of Jersey barrier so they could close down the n/b side of a bridge. They had the cross over section perfectly smooth and swept.

    No loose gravel or dirt.

    And I've conquered my fear of grated bridge decks. All you have to do is head over one of the grated bridges on the Columbia between WA and OR, when you have a 25 mph crosswind, and a solid line of traffic coming the other way.
    Too damn many bikes to list

  4. #19
    100,000+ miler 32232's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flymymbz View Post

    And I've conquered my fear of grated bridge decks. All you have to do is head over one of the grated bridges on the Columbia between WA and OR, when you have a 25 mph crosswind, and a solid line of traffic coming the other way.
    For bridge decks it's hard to beat the grated centre lanes of the Mackinac Bridge at two hundred feet up. The curb lanes are paved if you're squeamish.
    Dave

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  5. #20
    A bozo on the bus deilenberger's Avatar
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    In NJ there are contractors who neglect to add any warning of an edge trap when they pave past a merge lane on an interstate entrance. At night these can be a really nasty surprise.

    About 3 years ago two motorcyclists were killed (separate accidents, separate days, same road, same contractor) due to edge traps from uneven paving.. I notice now that at least the state gives some warning of edge traps (signs) now.. I expect the lawsuits filed by the deceased motorcyclists families might have had something to do with that. As Paul does - I'll stay in whatever lane I'm in, watching for a bridge or overpass where the concrete isn't milled down to make a move to the other lane if needed.

    Anyone know if any of this is taught in civil engineering school?
    Don Eilenberger http://www.eilenberger.net
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  6. #21
    A bozo on the bus deilenberger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee View Post
    I was just trying to point out it's not a problem to climb up to a higher lane when going slow, but it can be a problem if you're going 60 MPH.
    It can be a problem at ANY speed if your front wheel gets captured by an edge trap.

    There was an excellent article quite a few years ago in Motorcycle Consumer News with a great explanation of how a motorcycle, due to it having to lean to turn (and counter-steering) can basically get the front tire sucked tight against an edge trap no matter what the rider tries to do to break free. Bob Higdon used that article in a lawsuit against WDC for a crash he had due to an edge trap. IIRC - once the defendant (WDC) saw and read the article, they just settled rather then continue to court.

    In Bob's case, it was a steel construction plate (invisible at night, no warnings, no signs) that captured his front wheel, but it can happen just as easily with an edge formed due to paving. That's the reason to cross these sort of traps at as close to perpendicular as possible..
    Don Eilenberger http://www.eilenberger.net
    Spring Lk Heights NJ NJ Shore BMW Riders New Sweden BMW Riders
    '07 R1200R (current ride) and some bimmers.. and a Porsche

  7. #22
    Benchwrenching PGlaves's Avatar
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    Yes. The article Bob used was written by David Hough and David was prepared to testify as an expert witness if it went to trial. Bob and I had a long conversation about this at a rally a few years ago.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
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  8. #23
    Debbie's Servant Lee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deilenberger View Post
    It can be a problem at ANY speed if your front wheel gets captured by an edge trap.

    ..
    That's why I said to hit it at a sharp angle.
    Lee 2011 K1300S
    MOA # 30878
    Past BMW Bikes, 2003 K1200RS, 1991 K75S, 1987 K75T, 1984 R100RT

  9. #24
    Enjoy The Ride saddleman's Avatar
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    I can't say it has never concerned me but I have never had a problem dealing with it.
    Dave
    2004 Black LT
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  10. #25
    It's a way of life! oldnslow's Avatar
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    Wouldn't weighting (stand slightly and put more weight on that peg) the out board peg be helpful? (the peg on the opposite side of the raised section) Same principle for dirt bikes climbing out of a rut or riding off camber trail.
    Mike Davis
    "Old n Slow" It's a way of life!
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  11. #26
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    I took the opportunity to practice on some road construction here. about a 1.5 inch difference edge. I was amazed at how well the R1150RS handled it. It was no drama, and I worked from sharp angles to shallow ones, eventually even riding the edge. No drama of any kind. Maybe that was not wise. But I really have little fear of edges now.

    This discussion reminds me not to get overconfident and still respect the edge traps. There are some angled RR tracks where I work. I ride over them often, and never have an issue. And I have seen a bike wrecked on them once, so they do deserve respect

    Rod

  12. #27
    Registered User AKsuited's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deilenberger View Post
    Anyone know if any of this is taught in civil engineering school?
    It isn't.

    The problem is that if it is taught in courses related to maintaining traffic through road construction projects, you also have to overcome the inertia in state bureaucracies for anything to be done about it. A big part of this inertia is hostility towards motorcyclists, the attitude that motorcyclists deserve to be injured because they shouldn't be riding motorcycles in the first place. I've seen this in meetings. And of course contractors are another problem. They tend not to do the right thing unless ordered to.

    Harry
    2003 R1150RT - Silver

  13. #28
    Benchwrenching PGlaves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AKsuited View Post
    It isn't.

    The problem is that if it is taught in courses related to maintaining traffic through road construction projects, you also have to overcome the inertia in state bureaucracies for anything to be done about it. A big part of this inertia is hostility towards motorcyclists, the attitude that motorcyclists deserve to be injured because they shouldn't be riding motorcycles in the first place. I've seen this in meetings. And of course contractors are another problem. They tend not to do the right thing unless ordered to.

    Harry
    It is easy to go through a construction zone and recognize if the project is being done at the convenience of the motoring public or at the convenience of the contractor. Jurisdictions vary. Making the contractor do things like wedging asphalt edges cost money and some jurisdictions are all about the cost - safety be damned.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
    "The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution." - Bertrand Russell
    http://www.bigbend.net/users/glaves

  14. #29
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    Be aware too, that any edge, groove, cut line, raised surface, that runs parallel to your path of travel is a potential edge trap. Some back roads in Wisconsin develop a lot of long cracks or depressions that the highway crews fill with epoxy material. But those cracks can cause the bike to wander off your intended path. Don't freak out, dampen the reaction at the grips with steady pressure, but don't lock up your arms.

    Same applies for the edge of the pavement onto the gravel shoulder. Recently a bike here wandered off the pavement (actually, the rider wandered), and when trying to get back on the pavement the front tire contacted the edge and caused the bike to steer back onto the gravel and into the ditch.

  15. #30
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    NC Stephen
    Don't know when or where you had that conversation but there is still quite a bit of that going on in NC. Last season I ran into a very long stretch of 40 somewhere out west of Greensboro that had squared off 3" change at the new layer and I've seen a bunch of lesser stuff on 40 between Raleigh and Wilmington.
    We even had one of those morons paint full lane width signage with that slippery plastic paint on a curving, sloped bridge here in Wilmington. Its finally worn in a bit but you can imagine how slick it was when newer..
    NC DOT is a poorly run and managed organization that for years fed new roads to polticians as political favors rather than plan for the state's real needs and we're still playing catchup for that stupidity. The reorg of a few years ago helped but didn't fix all their problems. They're so far behind around here that it is possible to run into a 2 1/2 hr traffic jam in Wilmington now. Labor Day Fri saw a 5 mile long backup where 17 splits off 421 going over to Leland- made for a long evening for folks heading to Myrtle Beach or Brunswick County beaches...

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