Is there an inexpensive steering damper for the R100GS?

[bikerfish1100]

I'll tell you what, there are lots of us in the BMW fraternity out west at least who run triple digits on select roads we know. Do you seriously think riders stay below 80 mph on that long stretch of US 6 between Tonopah and Ely Nevada? Ha, not a chance! Ditto long stretches of US 50 in Nevada and Utah. You run those roads WFO. Ain't nuthun out there, never see a cop. It's the wild west.

tell that to my friends that have received performance awards from NSP officers. i have personally seen more than one along those very same roads, and Mr. Escort told me they were looking for revenue before they had a chance to request a donation from me.

but yeah, speedos do get a chance to use the right side of the dial out here.

[toooldtocare]

Does the GS even have a steering dampener? If my memory serves me right it doesn't, but it has been a few years since I rode one.

If it does, I would certainly never say remove it, but if it doesn't than the BMW engineers left it off for a reason. They left it off my mono-shock airheads, but not on my 78 Motorsport and R90S. Of course those bikes have weaker frames, swing arms, and forks than the later mono-shock airheads.

Anyone with GS in the garage, please look at it and let us know. If the GS does not have one and it wants to wobble, it is for another reason that should be addressed first.

[bikerfish1100]

Does the GS even have a steering dampener? If my memory serves me right it doesn't, but it has been a few years since I rode one.

If it does, I would certainly never say remove it, but if it doesn't than the BMW engineers left it off for a reason. They left it off my mono-shock airheads, but not on my 78 Motorsport and R90S. Of course those bikes have weaker frames, swing arms, and forks than the later mono-shock airheads.

Anyone with GS in the garage, please look at it and let us know. If the GS does not have one and it wants to wobble, it is for another reason that should be addressed first.

however, that reason may have everything, or nothing, to do with need or engineering. it might be due to marketing concerns, maybe economics, maybe some other intangible.
for example- my R11S came with a steering damper. other versins of the same bike did not, with no other significant differences. why? marketing, pure and simple. i've only noticed my damper kicking in under very limited/specific conditions (front end getting light while flip-flopping in an uphill S curve).
don't make the assumption that options and systems are all about engineering- sometimes the bean counters or the "package design" people get their 2 cents into the deal as well.

[20774]

Don't forget lawyers! CYA!!

[toooldtocare]

I've ridden my 91 model since she came out of the crate in March of 1991. Still looks presentable, has recently had a top end overhaul. Mileage is slightly over 131,000 miles. The front end worrys me, because, even with the steering head bearings adjusted, the bike feels like it could go into a headshake with little provocation.

My question - is there a relatively inexpensive steering damper available for the R100GS that (a) would not be too difficult to install, and that (b) would reduce/eliminate the chance of a violent headshake, or worse, a tankslapper?

It has happened to me once on this bike, when I encountered gravel in a turn, and both ends of the bike slid. On top of that problem, the tankslapper followed, with near-disasterous results.

He has been riding this bike since it was new. When did the problem start? At what speed? Did it do it when it was new? Has the bike been in an accident. Questions to ask before we decide that lawyers are the reasons engineers design products they way they do.

With 131k miles on it there may be something else wrong. Maybe a bent wheel, a bad wheel bearing, incorrectly adjusted steering bearings, bent swing arm, bad shock, bad springs in forks, cupped tires, the list goes on. Instead of debating engineers over lawyers, why not find out what is causing the wobbles. Why add aftermarket parts to fix a problem that may be due to something wrong with the bike.

I went through what the OP is going through on my R90S and Motorsport. In both cases I was able to fix the problems with cleaning, adjusting, and a few new parts.

[42906]

however, that reason may have everything, or nothing, to do with need or engineering. it might be due to marketing concerns, maybe economics, maybe some other intangible.
for example- my R11S came with a steering damper. other versins of the same bike did not, with no other significant differences. why? marketing, pure and simple. i've only noticed my damper kicking in under very limited/specific conditions (front end getting light while flip-flopping in an uphill S curve).
don't make the assumption that options and systems are all about engineering- sometimes the bean counters or the "package design" people get their 2 cents into the deal as well.

When the front suspension compresses, trail diminishes. Go ahead and draw a diagram of a front fork and see what I am talking about. When trail is reduced sufficiently, the bike can lose stability in a big way and put you down hard. It is when you have a combination of cornering loads and cargo weight that compresses the front fork that you get into trouble and need a steering dampener.

It's the heavy compressed front end that sets up the big weave you lose control from. The little tank slapper from a light front end will almost always damp out. That's not the one that bites you. This is what too many riders do not understand. A triple clamp with less offset gives the bike more trail and stabilzes this, but at the expense of easy low speed steering. BMWs engineers figured you could have it both ways with an adjustable steering damper, light steering around town at low speeds where the big weave isn't going to happen, and the ability to click on some damping for higher speeds where the big weave can hurt you bad.

[42906]

tell that to my friends that have received performance awards from NSP officers. i have personally seen more than one along those very same roads, and Mr. Escort told me they were looking for revenue before they had a chance to request a donation from me.

but yeah, speedos do get a chance to use the right side of the dial out here.

Interesting. The only part of US 6 where I've seen NSP was west of Tonopah heading towards the California state line. I'v never seen a cop the rest of the way from Tonopah to Delta Utah.
Man, 80 mph seems so slooow out there. 163 miles between towns with absolutely nothing in between. I carry a gallon of gas so I don't run out.
Another one is Alt 93 and 93 from Wendover to Ely coming home from WSBK. I'm seldom below 100 on that stretch, usually closer to 120 until I am inside 30 miles from Ely. Then I dial it back a bit.

This last May coming back from WSBK I got on I-80 with a pack of cars running 100 or so and ran with them all the way to Wendover. The one and only cop we encountered was a UHP sitting on I-80 east at the Nevada border (waiting to collect some of that gambling income from Wendover). Usually there are lots of UHP Barney Fifes out on 80 giving all the bikes the stink eye, but not this year. Budget cuts? Well, one can hope.

[bikerfish1100]

When the front suspension compresses, trail diminishes. Go ahead and draw a diagram of a front fork and see what I am talking about. When trail is reduced sufficiently, the bike can lose stability in a big way and put you down hard. It is when you have a combination of cornering loads and cargo weight that compresses the front fork that you get into trouble and need a steering dampener.

It's the heavy compressed front end that sets up the big weave you lose control from. The little tank slapper from a light front end will almost always damp out. That's not the one that bites you. This is what too many riders do not understand. A triple clamp with less offset gives the bike more trail and stabilzes this, but at the expense of easy low speed steering. BMWs engineers figured you could have it both ways with an adjustable steering damper, light steering around town at low speeds where the big weave isn't going to happen, and the ability to click on some damping for higher speeds where the big weave can hurt you bad.

just an FYI on all that- when my front end compresses, it does not really compress, and steering geometry is not really impacted. R11S is an oilhead, with telelever front end. some compression, but relatively minimal. the stock damper on that bike was a non-adjustable unit, with some history of failing (on others' bikes) in "full on" mode- creating an unsteerable bike. i've since upgraded to a Hyperpro unit, fully adjustable. works like a charm. bike is stable to stupid speeds and beyond, straight or heeled over.

carry on.

[8ninety8]

I thought the factory recommendation was to click the damper up,2, when riding in difficult slow speed/off road conditions, and click the thing off when WFO? In fact, think I heard this advice also at various tech sessions. Any wobble.weave is primafacia evidence of other service problems?

My R90S wiggles its head everytime it breaks the wash when passing a semi. It's a wiggle that pops straight when the fork mounted fairing catches clean air. Never gave it a second thought.

[Walking Eagle]

From what I've read about steering dampers, so far, my understanding of "when to use them" on airheads is EXACTLY what 898 has shared in his post. We're talking about 50 HP AIRHEADS, here, and not a 450#, 150HP Rocket bike which gets very light in the front end coming off a corner -- please give me a steering damper for THAT!

Extensive experimentation on a cross-country ride with a very-slightly weeping damper showed that it made NO difference with some cornering issues -- issues that were completely resolved with the removal of old hardened grease in the head bearings, and a careful adjustment of same. [Granted, it's fair to inquire as to how effective a "slightly weeping" damper is/was. I have no idea.]

Moreover, Snowbum, and maybe Oak, and maybe others, have written that the biggest improvement in (corner) handling for airheads comes from installing a thicker, stiffer triple-clamp (maybe this changes trail also, as mentioned by 49206?).

The addition of a fork-brace alone (according to the gurus) doesn't help that much with the corner stability.

Many articles/comments out there about airheads doing the weave (as distinguished from a "head-shake") especially when riding SOLO (esp. with a light-rider) and loaded bags/camping gear on the rear seat. I've noticed this very thing when riding two different R100RS's, especially when in heavy truck traffic on the interstate. That said, each of these machines have both billet triple-clamps and sturdy fork-braces (C & C), with NO steering dampers. Most important, none of these "weaves" resulted in a tank-slapper, and -yes- all the way up to 3-digits. . .these bikes would "weave" but not go into high-speed oscillation. Use/non-use of the steering damper made NO difference in this handling behavior. YRMV

One "speed" comment I'd make is that perhaps we DO tend to ride faster in the west, and having ridden all over this country and Canada and Mexico, it's rather obvious as to "why. . ." In many parts of the west, a rider can traverse many many deserted miles of highway without seeing a single car, especially cars with big light-bars on top. When your bike is fully sorted, speed, alone, in certain conditions, need not be overly hazardous. What it IS, is F-U-N, and constitutes one of the main reasons to ride a motorcycle in the first place.

Screw political correctness. Life is shockingly short.

Yes, this is a wandering thread, and has gone into a galaxy far, far away from the OP's question, but lots of good information here.

Walking Eagle

[8ninety8]

Exactly on the loading up the bike factor. When traveling the old advice of taking extra BVDs, a pair of dry socks and a teeshirt with good maps, a small eureka and lite bag, was about it.

Get up early, Pack low, keep the stuff off rear mounted/high rack, leave the tea pot, kitchen sink, beer cooler, at home. Then lean into the wind, hunker down on that bike, look fer a diner in the morning, and the next camp ground early in the afternoon, after doing 600 miles.

Oh, about 7PM the other bikers roll in, if still running, all geared up, looking fer a spot.

Any wiggle up front will git amplified by that gear hanging out the back, and it will act as a force multiplier. Less is more, simple is beauty. The damper on my R90 is set on one, if it ever starts slapping, don't think it'll make a bit of difference. Don't think I can even feel it, have to check on next ride.

[GUENTHER]

I have 130T miles on my R100GS. A few times I got a "wobble" with full camping gear loaded on the cargo rack and side bags full. Typically higher speed (below 70mph) in a curve and using the front brake (due to something unexpected on the road). It feels like the front and rear wheel wobble in different directions and twisting the frame a bit.

Is this the symptom you have?

/Guenther

[ohiorider]

For starters - no - the R100GS doesn't come equipped with a steering damper. I'm probably trying to mask a problem with one.

- June 2000: At 70,000 miles, a truck driver decided to back up after missing his turn on a rural road. I bailed just as the truck backed into the bike. Considerable cosmetic damage (roo bar, front fender, fairing, windshield all replaced). Amazingly, the bike didn't fall over since the front tire got stuck in the equipment ramp.
- after much complaining about the forks, the dealer had them replaced with new ones. I think the issue was improper reassembly after teardown when they checked fork legs for straightness. Regardless, new forks were installed.
- I asked about checking front end for change in rake (reduced) due to impact but was told BMW didn't provide this info.
- a few years ago, I hit a patch of gravel in a low speed turn (30mph approx) and the bike went into a headshake like I hadn't experienced since my BSA days in the mid 1960s. It was violent.
- the bike handles fine in turns, and is ok at speed straight line ...... there's just that suspicion that a headshake is waiting to happen again, due to how light the front feels, and its willingness to begin shaking if I loosen my grip just slightly on the bars.
------------------------------------------------
- Today, the bike has over 130,000 miles on it. The steering head bearings and races were replaced at 117,000, probably need readjusted (tightened)
- In the past, if I reduced pressure on the grips at say, 65mph, the steering oscillation wouldn't begin until speed fell off to 30-35mph. Now it will shake at speeds from 10-70mph+, the only difference being the frequency is higher the faster the bike is rolling.
-----------------------------------------------
- I'm taking the bike to a local shop that has a device identical/similar to a Traxxion alignment checker. Apparently, they have all the frame specs for the GS, and the cost to put the bike on the machine and do the checkout isn't expensive. After all these years, I need to know if the front end rake was changed in the accident so many years ago.

Perhaps I need to quit running the Tourances, and go back to a conventional road tire, since I don't ride the GS off of hard surfaces.

I'll update this thread once I get the results from the frame analysis.

Bob

BTW - here's the link to info about the frame analysis machine:
http://www.mphohio.com/megamax.htm

[brittrunyon]

For starters - no - the R100GS doesn't come equipped with a steering damper. I'm probably trying to mask a problem with one.

- June 2000: At 70,000 miles, a truck driver decided to back up after missing his turn on a rural road. I bailed just as the truck backed into the bike. Considerable cosmetic damage (roo bar, front fender, fairing, windshield all replaced). Amazingly, the bike didn't fall over since the front tire got stuck in the equipment ramp.
- after much complaining about the forks, the dealer had them replaced with new ones. I think the issue was improper reassembly after teardown when they checked fork legs for straightness. Regardless, new forks were installed.
- I asked about checking front end for change in rake (reduced) due to impact but was told BMW didn't provide this info.
- a few years ago, I hit a patch of gravel in a low speed turn (30mph approx) and the bike went into a headshake like I hadn't experienced since my BSA days in the mid 1960s. It was violent.
- the bike handles fine in turns, and is ok at speed straight line ...... there's just that suspicion that a headshake is waiting to happen again, due to how light the front feels, and its willingness to begin shaking if I loosen my grip just slightly on the bars.
------------------------------------------------
- Today, the bike has over 130,000 miles on it. The steering head bearings and races were replaced at 117,000, probably need readjusted (tightened)
- In the past, if I reduced pressure on the grips at say, 65mph, the steering oscillation wouldn't begin until speed fell off to 30-35mph. Now it will shake at speeds from 10-70mph+, the only difference being the frequency is higher the faster the bike is rolling.
-----------------------------------------------
- I'm taking the bike to a local shop that has a device identical/similar to a Traxxion alignment checker. Apparently, they have all the frame specs for the GS, and the cost to put the bike on the machine and do the checkout isn't expensive. After all these years, I need to know if the front end rake was changed in the accident so many years ago.

Perhaps I need to quit running the Tourances, and go back to a conventional road tire, since I don't ride the GS off of hard surfaces.

I'll update this thread once I get the results from the frame analysis.

Bob

BTW - here's the link to info about the frame analysis machine:
http://www.mphohio.com/megamax.htm

WOW.......can hardly wait.............

[GUENTHER]

"headshake" is a new word for me. What does that mean?

With the detailed history of the motor-sick-le I would check the whole frame for a damage. Especially any tubing joints. May be a split open tube? In the front fork?

/Guenther