New Rally Schedule

[mika]

Show of hands please, how many complaining about the rally site and wanting an event in Canada actually showed up for this one?

Not complaining about anything: this years site, the BoD, the rally schedule or anything else. Just talking about if and how an event could be held in Canada. This has been talked about numerous times on the forum. As far as I have seen this is the first time some members have been willing to form a group to look into options for a rally or other MOA event in Canada.

[sherpamayberry]

I understand your concerns. What information / help would make you consider doing a International or alternative MOA event in Canada?

Not sure what it would take to have 100% confidence that I wouldn't be turned away at the border.

From my perspective, I sell tent setup/rentals through my site in the U.S., but providing the service in Canada would complicate who I should pay taxes.

My trailer is quite large (44') and jammed packed when going to a rally like MOA. It could take them days to really search it end to end. Just seems like there's a myriad of issues that can crop up denying me access. I don't think there are any ITAR issues, but bringing significant amount of materials (tens of thousands of dollars worth of camping gear) each way across the border (even though I don't sell materials) is just going to raise issues each way.

My situation is much more sensitive than a regular vendor. People are counting on me to provide them with a tent, mattress, sleeping bag, etc. If I miss one event for any reason, my reputation would take a business ending blow. I'd be done with the Sherpa business overnight because people would be left stranded with no place/gear to sleep.

If I were merely planning to show to sell merchandise and got turned away, it would certainly hurt given the planning and expected revenues, but wouldn't be the end of my business.

[rjzinc]

.... to form a group to look into options for a rally or other MOA event in Canada.

When some travel, they like to experience the culture of the place they are travelling to. Wouldn't it be interesting for the Canadians to come up with a rally the way they rally? I would like to see Canadian vendors participate and then experience the way Canadians put on a rally.

I just returned from the Fingerlakes BMW club rally and the Canadian attendance was substantial. My estimate was more Canadians on the dance floor than Americans, those Canadians know how to party. That's great!

Too many times we Americans want to travel and have the same experience as we have at home. That isn't really experiencing anything new. Perhaps the sleeping bags in Canada zip from the top down or maybe their tents open from the left? Are there not vendors and camping outfits in Canada?

Just saying,
Rick

[xp8103]

Return To Trenton!

http://www.ltbmwr.ca/html/return_to_trenton_rally.html

[mika]

snip...
Too many times we Americans want to travel and have the same experience as we have at home. That isn't really experiencing anything new. Perhaps the sleeping bags in Canada zip from the top down or maybe their tents open from the left? Are there not vendors and camping outfits in Canada?

Just saying,
Rick

FWIW

Please be cautious when ascribing agendas and value judgments to people's posts. If it hasn't been clear in my previous posts
a. Yes I would like to go to a Canadian Rally
b. For that to happen it will have to be spearheaded by Canadians in terms of site selection and all the 'normal' rally site selection requirements.
c. The customs logistics issues would require help from everyone to come up with solutions to deal with the issues.
d. I believe there are Canadian vendors that can and would attend a Canadian rally that aren't crossing the border for many of the same reasons.
e. The MOA rally is an important part of the summer event sales for many of the small vendors. The impact on them in a given year and their long term impacts the MOA as well as the vendor in the long term.
f. Speaking only for myself I am not looking to impose or recreate an experience. A Canadian rally, even in the framework of an International MOA Rally would have its own flavor. Rather I am curious and trying to help flesh out issues that would need to be addressed and solutions found for if a group were to ever put a proposal to the BoD and site committee and have them seriously consider it.

I am not complaining about anyone. A Canadian rally may never happen again; however, this is becoming the most constructive discussion of what it might take to even think about doing it again.

[AKsuited]

I did attend the Trenton Rally and had a good time.

In the summer, I like the idea of heading north rather than south because that's generally where the more comfortable weather is. I have also traveled in Canada and enjoy the differences in culture and scenery.

As someone mentioned, perhaps consulting with a "customs broker" or some type of Canadian expert might smooth the way for vendors and others.

My experiences have been that entering Canada is easier than returning to the US, with the exception of the friendlier small crossings across northern New England, as opposed to the urban crossings like Niagara Falls.

Canada should not be ruled out as a rally site.

Harry

[32232]

Not sure what it would take to have 100% confidence that I wouldn't be turned away at the border.

1.7 billion dollars in trade cross the US/Canada border every day. This ranges from the Detroit 3 auto makers to small mom and pop bakeries delivering bread to market.

It is not hard. First thing, just as a vacationer shouldn't try to cross without a passport, don't try and bring commercial goods across without the correct type of commercial entry documents. If you don't have the wherewithal to do the work for yourself, that is what a customs broker is for. If the documentation is correct, there is 0% chance you "will be turned away".

Try the US and Canadian border agency websites. They are loaded with information on how to facilitate commercial enterprise.

The concept of your business is the exact same as any rock band, film crew or circus that crosses with its own materiel fully intending to export those goods upon the conclusion of business. It is done every day! Google "carnet de passage" for a start. You can get one from a chamber of commerce.

Just because you don't know how to do it now, doesn't mean it can't be done, or is difficult to manage.

[sherpamayberry]

1.7 billion dollars in trade cross the US/Canada border every day. This ranges from the Detroit 3 auto makers to small mom and pop bakeries delivering bread to market.

It is not hard. First thing, just as a vacationer shouldn't try to cross without a passport, don't try and bring commercial goods across without the correct type of commercial entry documents. If you don't have the wherewithal to do the work for yourself, that is what a customs broker is for. If the documentation is correct, there is 0% chance you "will be turned away".

Try the US and Canadian border agency websites. They are loaded with information on how to facilitate commercial enterprise.

The concept of your business is the exact same as any rock band, film crew or circus that crosses with its own materiel fully intending to export those goods upon the conclusion of business. It is done every day! Google "carnet de passage" for a start. You can get one from a chamber of commerce.

Just because you don't know how to do it now, doesn't mean it can't be done, or is difficult to manage.

I am a one man operation (though my wife handles the books and helps pack the trailers). I have no doubt I can figure it out, I've worked foreign military sales for the gov't for several years.

Big corporations learn and press on. If a shipment fails the first time, they have resources and time to rectify the issue. They can plan and ship early in order to have time to react.

I would have no time and insignificant resources to resolve any serious issues. I still have a day job and no time to make a trial run across the border prior to the rally.

I simply can't take the chance I screwed up somewhere and can't cross the border, that would mean an end to the business I spent eight years building.

[nplenzick]

As a vendor doing a show in Canada is completely impracticable which is why you don't see many other vendors venturing across the border. The MOA national simply isn't big enough to warrant the expense of an exporting license and the documentation of ALL the products that you would sell and the duty of those products if sold. The vast majority ( I would think 90%) of vendors attending the MOA are very small business owners with less then 10 employees. If it wasn't a big deal the International Motorcycle show would have shows there. There's a reason they don't. I don't see how the MOA could apply for any type of license and be responsible for each vendor. The liability of this would be tremendous and I doubt that it would be legal.
I think if you have a MOA national in Canada it would have to be supported by Canadian vendors.

[nytrashman]

as with changing the date of the rally, holding it in Canada is something the vendors don't want so it won't happen. it doesn't matter what the membership wants, the vendors and BOD decide when and where the rally will be held.

[xp8103]

I'd love for it to be different as well but unfortunately, it isn't. The Return To Trenton rally is on my list to attend. But those companies you mention have the where-with-all to make the effort. And the smaller companies (you mention bread bakers) who do the cross-boarder thing do it every day, not once every 8 years and have the advantage of familiarity.

[nplenzick]

as with changing the date of the rally, holding it in Canada is something the vendors don't want so it won't happen. it doesn't matter what the membership wants, the vendors and BOD decide when and where the rally will be held.

Start another poll and lets see if vendors are important to the national and we'll see how that one goes.

[sherpamayberry]

it doesn't matter what the membership wants, the vendors and BOD decide when and where the rally will be held.

As a vendor, I can guarantee I've never been consulted by anyone from MOA for location preferences.

[osbornk]

as with changing the date of the rally, holding it in Canada is something the vendors don't want so it won't happen. it doesn't matter what the membership wants, the vendors and BOD decide when and where the rally will be held.

I think the MOA and its members need to take the vendor's concerns and challenges into consideration when planning an event. The vendors who cater to the BMW crowd are already small and difficult to locate. Many are small companys that depend on the rally for a substantial part of their yearly sales and to make people aware of their business so they can increase their non-rally sales throughout the year. If the location or timing of the rally makes it more expensive or difficult for them to participate, they may not survive or expand. That is a loss to all of us.

To many BMW specific vendors, the ability to sell at the rally is as important as a toy store selling during Christmas.

[Rob Nye]

1.7 billion

The concept of your business is the exact same as any rock band, film crew or circus that crosses with its own materiel fully intending to export those goods upon the conclusion of business. It is done every day! Google "carnet de passage" for a start. You can get one from a chamber of commerce.

Just because you don't know how to do it now, doesn't mean it can't be done, or is difficult to manage.

It is much, much different when you plan on crossing with materiel that you intend to sell while in Canada.

So difficult that many of the smaller and even some of the larger vendors said never again.