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Thread: Proficient cornering...

  1. #16
    Registered User PittsDriver's Avatar
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    My advice is, before you go off to a riding/cornering school for a couple of days, is to just get off in the mountains on some twisty roads for a full day or two. I bet you'll come back from that trip feeling much more at home on your new scoot.

    I was in a similar situation - used to race a GS550, then a GS1000 about 3 decades ago and just got back in to riding this past winter. It was very awkward at first to not feel at home on a twisty road but some patience in the knowledge that "it'll come back to me" and just kept riding and it did.

  2. #17
    Registered User WalterK75's Avatar
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    Lee Parks Total Control is a good read after David Hough's Proficient Motorcycling books. Parks' course sounds like an excellent course, more advanced than many but not race track oriented. If you have the time and interest, Bernt Spiegel's The Upper half of the motorcycle is very interesting and quite different in focus.
    Walter

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  3. #18
    Cage Rattler wezul's Avatar
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    Come back to me?
    I never had it, I'm thinking
    I got seriously schooled coming home from Sedalia, Rapid Roy will vouch for me on this one.
    Actually was a nice twisty little two laner but I just got that high shoulder freeze up thing going as I am liked to do when the pressure is on and it was not pleasant. No sir.

    I do not see much of roads like that, I live in the land of flat and straight. But man its sure cool to watch you guys carve em up.
    I shall endeavour to perservere.

  4. #19
    NC Piedmont Rider ncstephen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flyrider View Post
    The CLASS school sounds outstanding, however the location puts it probably out of my reach in terms of logistics.
    You are in the SF Bay area. They have fall classes at Laguna Seca and Sonoma. Neither seem that far from you.

    NCS
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  5. #20
    Morning Person
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    Quote Originally Posted by NCStephen View Post
    You are in the SF Bay area. They have fall classes at Laguna Seca and Sonoma. Neither seem that far from you.

    NCS
    No...I used to be in the Bay Area. Now in mountain states. Got a great set of roads to ride with lots of canyon twisties...so the advice someone gave to ride a bunch is what I'm doing. It IS getting better...BUT...

    One difficulty I have is on blind, decreasing radius right hand turns. I continually apex early, because it's hard for me to hug the outside of the lane with potential vehicle traffic coming the other way out of that blind turn. Any advice here? Thanks...

  6. #21
    neanderssance man sedanman's Avatar
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    Get some professional training. That's my advice. You may go into the twisty back roads and drill bad habits over and over until they are impossible to break. I was licensed for a long tim ebefore I went to Lee Parks course, I had a LOT of bad habits and they still come out from time to time. The sooner you get some proper instruction and drill THOSE skills, the better off you will be. I took Lee's couse this spring, I'm going back next spring to do it again, then I'm going for level 2. My plan is to take a class or do a track day every year from now on.
    I have a doosie of a decreasing radius entrance ramp on my commute. It used to scare the stuffing out of me, it's now one of my favorite turns. Taking Lee's course has made me a better cage driver as well due to the lessons learned about decreasing radius turns.
    Paul
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  7. #22
    Small road corner junkie pffog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flyrider View Post
    ..........

    One difficulty I have is on blind, decreasing radius right hand turns. I continually apex early, because it's hard for me to hug the outside of the lane with potential vehicle traffic coming the other way out of that blind turn. Any advice here? Thanks...
    But what you are doing actually puts you in MORE danger. By apexing early, you have a bigger chance of running wide on the exit, which is the blind part of the turn.

    My MO is to stay wide to increase the sight line, then wait until I can see the exit (or oncoming traffic encroaching) and dive to the apex. On LONG RH blind turns, I again enter wide, but if the exit does not come in view I will head to the fog line, or beyond and ride around the inside of the corner, making sure I always control my exit position, generally exiting on the fog line.

  8. #23
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    ye, what the Old Guy just said.
    Ride Safe, Ride Lots

  9. #24
    Kbiker BCKRider's Avatar
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    Complicated subject, for sure. I think the general advice for a left bend is to get as far right as you safely can and stay there until you see the end of the bend, when you can move to the center of the lane and then to the right.

    For a right bend, get as far left as you can in your lane for the best visibility of the both the road and oncoming traffic. Again, the apex is unknown until you see it.

    Unless you know the road well, presume there may be gravel. You may have to slow a little and alter you path of travel. On a right hand bend, predict that a car may cover part of your lane. You see that sooner but you have to get out of the way.

    Correct speed in the corners depends not only what you see but also what you predict. 99% of the time, your dire predictions won't materialize and you could have zoomed through that corner far faster. It is the 1% that can kill you.
    Doug
    1992 K100RS

  10. #25
    the Wizard of Oz 26667's Avatar
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    two cents

    FWIW & IMHO Tho I loved CLASS and felt like I learned a great deal about riding at speed, I also felt like it assumed a little too knowledge and skill for me at the time I attended. Still a great confidence builder. Total Rider Tech, and The Lee Parks Class (http://www.totalcontroltraining.net/) and ( (http://www.totalridertech.com/) have some great classroom, just-standing-on-the-carpet exercises to help you get a physical sense of what you ought to be doing prep'ing for a turn, being in a turn and exiting a turn. Then they have people spot your bike while you sit on it so you can practice that same set of skills at zero mph. Then they have you do some straight line exercises on your bike at low speed to develop throttle control (so does CLASS). Then cornering practice begins at low speed, 2nd gear, just enough speed to be able to lean the bike in the turn. Check out their video and find some kind of riding class. You'll have a ball in any of them and come out a much much more confident rider.

    PS if I'm reading your post correctly, it sounds like you really need to get a handle on the idea of a late apex before you get in trouble. IK exactly what you mean about oncoming traffic, but it sounds as tho your technique is increasing the danger.
    Last edited by 26667; 08-14-2012 at 12:59 PM.
    We might as well walk. ~ Adam Guettel The Light In The Piazza
    used to own: 1982 R100T, 1984 R65, 1986K75C, 1997 R1100RT, R850R, K75S, 1978 R100RS... what was I thinking?

  11. #26
    Morning Person
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCKRIDER View Post
    Complicated subject, for sure. I think the general advice for a left bend is to get as far right as you safely can and stay there until you see the end of the bend, when you can move to the center of the lane and then to the right.

    For a right bend, get as far left as you can in your lane for the best visibility of the both the road and oncoming traffic. Again, the apex is unknown until you see it.

    Unless you know the road well, presume there may be gravel. You may have to slow a little and alter you path of travel. On a right hand bend, predict that a car may cover part of your lane. You see that sooner but you have to get out of the way.

    Correct speed in the corners depends not only what you see but also what you predict. 99% of the time, your dire predictions won't materialize and you could have zoomed through that corner far faster. It is the 1% that can kill you.
    Best reply so far...thanks!

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by 26667 View Post
    FWIW & IMHO Tho I loved CLASS and felt like I learned a great deal about riding at speed, I also felt like it assumed a little too knowledge and skill for me at the time I attended. Still a great confidence builder. Total Rider Tech, and The Lee Parks Class (http://www.totalcontroltraining.net/) and ( (http://www.totalridertech.com/) have some great classroom, just-standing-on-the-carpet exercises to help you get a physical sense of what you ought to be doing prep'ing for a turn, being in a turn and exiting a turn. Then they have people spot your bike while you sit on it so you can practice that same set of skills at zero mph. Then they have you do some straight line exercises on your bike at low speed to develop throttle control (so does CLASS). Then cornering practice begins at low speed, 2nd gear, just enough speed to be able to lean the bike in the turn. Check out their video and find some kind of riding class. You'll have a ball in any of them and come out a much much more confident rider.

    PS if I'm reading your post correctly, it sounds like you really need to get a handle on the idea of a late apex before you get in trouble. IK exactly what you mean about oncoming traffic, but it sounds as tho your technique is increasing the danger.
    All true...but to mitigate the risk of apexing early, my speed is MUCH slower than required. In the time since this post, I've worked on staying outside until the exit appears, then heading to the apex. Getting better. Work in progress...thanks!

  13. #28
    Cowboyatheart
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    Quote Originally Posted by flyrider View Post
    No...I used to be in the Bay Area. Now in mountain states. Got a great set of roads to ride with lots of canyon twisties...so the advice someone gave to ride a bunch is what I'm doing. It IS getting better...BUT...

    One difficulty I have is on blind, decreasing radius right hand turns. I continually apex early, because it's hard for me to hug the outside of the lane with potential vehicle traffic coming the other way out of that blind turn. Any advice here? Thanks...
    Folks will be able to help you find a right school if you just inform everyone as to where you actually live. Mountain States is vague.
    Neil
    Want to be happy for a day? Drink. Want to be happy for a year? Get married. Want to be happy for life? Ride a BMW!
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  14. #29
    Kbiker BCKRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flyrider View Post
    Best reply so far...thanks!
    Thanks for the compliment. I suspect I have to make up for lack of skill by thinking. Not the best answer, but if you didn't start riding as a kid and can't find advanced training, reading and practicing what makes sense to you may well be the best answer to surviving on a bike.

    Yesterday I took a 330 mile "local tour" ride with one friend. Lots of curvy roads. The thing that came back to me about cornering, is to lean your body to the side after you have set your entry speed. When you press the bars, your body is slightly to the inside of the turn and you rotate your head so your eyes stay parraell with the road as the bike leans.

    Looking as far ahead as you can gives you a smooth line with just a bit of power on the throttle. Spare a glance for the surface too. Maybe you need a little brake so you can avoid a problem.

    Not sure if this is helpful.
    Doug
    1992 K100RS

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCKRIDER View Post
    Thanks for the compliment. I suspect I have to make up for lack of skill by thinking. Not the best answer, but if you didn't start riding as a kid and can't find advanced training, reading and practicing what makes sense to you may well be the best answer to surviving on a bike.

    Yesterday I took a 330 mile "local tour" ride with one friend. Lots of curvy roads. The thing that came back to me about cornering, is to lean your body to the side after you have set your entry speed. When you press the bars, your body is slightly to the inside of the turn and you rotate your head so your eyes stay parraell with the road as the bike leans.

    Looking as far ahead as you can gives you a smooth line with just a bit of power on the throttle. Spare a glance for the surface too. Maybe you need a little brake so you can avoid a problem.

    Not sure if this is helpful.
    It's very helpful...especially the body lean part. I was on a ride the other day and consciously shifted my weight to the inside during the turn, and suddenly had a real sense of command over the bike's line and a sense of confidence as well. The reduction in required lean angle for the bike, while slight on most of the turns I made (not high speed cornering), was enough to make me feel "planted" on my line.

    Unfortunately, our area is now besotted with forest fires, and visibility is a few miles at best, so my favorite winding road into the mountains isn't an enjoyable, or wise, ride right now. Additionally, the highway folks have decided to resurface the road, as well. Double whammy...

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