AMA Posts Ethanol Alert!

[arthurdent]

So, there's a wall at IA-WI border to prevent the ethanol trucks from crossing the border and the WI militia is conducting raids on the IA corn fields to prevent the corn production? How many IA federal and state legislators have been arrested and jailed in WI? Isn't there some corn production in southern WI? What do those congressmen vote for?

Not at all certain what you're trying to say here? It doesn't seem to mean much in relation to the post you quoted.

I think what Andy was saying is that WI does not have an ethanol mandate, unlike IA and MN. In short, we DO NOT HAVE THE OPTION to buy NON ETHANOL GAS because of political shenanigans and excessive lobbying.

[ANDYVH]

Oh there is corn here a-plenty in Wisconsin! And from what I hear from co-workers in Iowa, the corn down there has really been hit hard by the drought. But the Wisconsin corn crop in the northern 3/4 of the state has now rebounded well with the recent abundant rains.

Well, based on the fact that non-E10 gas is readily available at Shell, Mobil, Kwik-Trip, Marathon, Fleet-Farm and numerous other gas stations around the state, I guess then we must not have a mandate on E10 fuel. Most often non-E10 is sold as "Premium" fuel or even recreational fuel. Though I give Fleet-Farm credit, and my fuel purchasing dollars, because they sell a mid-grade fuel (89 octane) that I buy for my 2001 Dakota pickup. And I have documented the mileage enough times over to know for certain I get better gas mileage without E10 in the tank.

Maybe the Wisconsin state government is a bit more enlightened than I give them credit for. Knowing that, I am going to watch this whole E10/E15 issue even more closely to make sure no dumb-a** mandate gets forced on the populace who don't want the crap to begin with!

But all it takes is some lobbying, to get more subsidies, so the E10 providers can lower the E10 price below that of regular gas, and the greater unknowing populace will buy it like lemmings heading to the cliff. Cheaper must be better right?

[bohdi36]

try this web site www.pure-gas.org, for your local area, seems to be fairly accurate in my area, you can also add stations if you come across one in your travels.

[36654]

Not at all certain what you're trying to say here? It doesn't seem to mean much in relation to the post you quoted.

I think what Andy was saying is that WI does not have an ethanol mandate, unlike IA and MN. In short, we DO NOT HAVE THE OPTION to buy NON ETHANOL GAS because of political shenanigans and excessive lobbying.

Waving your team flag and claiming moral superiority is wonderful, if it wasn't for the issue that your elected federal officials were the people voting for these policies. The seed corn, fertilizer & food processors (ethanol distillers) have more say in this matter than any silly consumer. As such, they are the ones (they have the same legal stature as a citizen) speaking and funding the elected officials.

If you want to rant, rant against the guy that's making the profit and paying the lobbyists and campaign funds . The elected officials are doing whatever the market provides for campaign funds. They, in turn, write the laws/rules that run the government.

[NI5L]

try this web site www.pure-gas.org, for your local area, seems to be fairly accurate in my area, you can also add stations if you come across one in your travels.

They have a nifty iPhone app as well.

[kantuckid]

I don't need an iphone to see that the nearest "pure-gas" is still over an hrs drive from me.

[39520]

They have a nifty iPhone app as well.

Thanks for the tip. I found one station locally selling non-ethanol, and I know our local marina sells non-ethanol as well.

Choice of gas does not seem to affect the performance of my K12 in any noticeable way. However, I have an old Porsche Turbo with mechanical fuel injection, and of course it can't make timing adjustments on the fly like a modern car or motorcycle with EFI. It likes good gas.

[NI5L]

I don't need an iphone to see that the nearest "pure-gas" is still over an hrs drive from me.

You might if you were traveling.

[GeneT]

Corn was intended to be used for making Whiskey, not ethanol.

[R1200RClassic]

so I went to all the gas stations near me today and everyone had 10% content, which really bugs me... I can't help but think the bike would run better if I could get 100% gas somewhere... is it worth the trouble? or is 10% ok?

[36654]

so I went to all the gas stations near me today and everyone had 10% content, which really bugs me... I can't help but think the bike would run better if I could get 100% gas somewhere... is it worth the trouble? or is 10% ok?

You can use your high school chemistry and calculate the heat energy content of the blend vs the non-blend. Or, you can listen to anecdotal comments.

It's just a matter of what you want to believe.

[39520]

You can use your high school chemistry and calculate the heat energy content of the blend vs the non-blend.

Good point.

I looked up the energy densities of gasoline (34 MJ/l) and E10 (33.18 MJ/l). These would mean that E10 has 97.5% of the energy density of gasoline. If the relationship between energy density and horsepower is linear, then my K12's horsepower is reduced by 4 HP, from 160 to 156 when using E10. My personal butt dyno is not calibrated to that level of sensitivity.


But on the other hand, if you had to fill up with E85 you would take a noticeable hit in energy density - E85 has 75% of the energy density value of pure gasoline. (E85 being 85% ethanol, 15% gasoline).

[36654]

Good point.

I looked up the energy densities of gasoline (34 MJ/l) and E10 (33.18 MJ/l). These would mean that E10 has 97.5% of the energy density of gasoline. If the relationship between energy density and horsepower is linear, then my K12's horsepower is reduced by 4 HP, from 160 to 156 when using E10. My personal butt dyno is not calibrated to that level of sensitivity.


But on the other hand, if you had to fill up with E85 you would take a noticeable hit in energy density - E85 has 75% of the energy density value of pure gasoline. (E85 being 85% ethanol, 15% gasoline).

At constant speed, your mileage should be proportional to fuel energy content per volume.

[Kent Niederhofer]

Folks,

As a technically-degreed executive of a nearly 100-year old engineering consulting firm, I am a firm believer in science-based risk analysis and absolutely deplore political rhetoric and grand-standing. Too many organizations have taken positions based on the misguided beliefs of their financiers and not scientific fact or empirical data.

I want to share a reasonably well written summary on the findings of a proposed plan to move from E10 to E15 gasoline mix. I can tell you that a large population of automobiles was rigorously tested and effect measured on their performance (in the broadest sense) to determine E15's impact. We presented the results of our tests to Margo Oge of the EPA who was extremely pleased with the rigor of the analysis (as I would have expected) as there is so much "hot air" on this subject we needed to be absolutely robust in our approach.

I am going to follow up with my team to ascertain if any similar analysis was conducted on "small personal transportation vehicles" like ATVs, motorcycles, and so on -- and I'll pass that on. In the meantime, here is the article:

http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2...15/496452.html

I hope this helps and for anyone that needs a complete copy of the report I will see if I can find a way to post it for you.

Kent

[NI5L]

Good article. Being in research myself, I can appreciate the testing and the reults.

But the fact that the ethanol is made from a food staple really pisses me off.

I don't know what cretin decided this is a good idea, but he and his cohorts should be publicly horsewhipped.