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Thread: AMA Posts Ethanol Alert!

  1. #1
    24991 Pauls1150's Avatar
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    Angry AMA Posts Ethanol Alert!

    Federal officials mandate consumers must buy at least four gallons of gasoline from certain ethanol-blend pumps:

    Take Action! link:
    http://capwiz.com/amacycle/issues/al...32086&queueid=[capwiz:queue_id]

    Contact your senators and your representative today!

    The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency will require all consumers to buy at least four gallons of gasoline from certain gas pumps after the new E15 ethanol-gasoline blend is introduced into the market, the American Motorcyclist Association reports. The vast majority of motorcycles and all-terrain vehicles in use today are not designed to operate on E15 fuel.

    The EPA revealed the requirement to the AMA in a letter dated Aug. 1, responding to AMA concerns that E15 -- a gasoline formulation that contains up to 15 percent ethanol by volume ÔÇô could be put in motorcycle and ATV fuel tanks inadvertently when consumers use blender pumps. A blender pump dispenses different fuel blends through the same hose.

    ÔÇ£With E15 gasoline, our members who make a concerted effort to fuel their motorcycles or ATVs with E10-or-less gasoline may be unknowingly refueling with residual fuel left in the hose,ÔÇØ Wayne Allard, AMA vice president for government relations, wrote in a June 20 letter to EPA Administrator Lisa Jackson.

    ÔÇ£Unlike an automobile or SUV with a large fuel tank, the residual fuel left in a fueling hose could be detrimental to the performance of motorcycle or ATV engines due to the small size of their fuel tanks and the higher concentration of ethanol that would, therefore, be present in the fuel,ÔÇØ Allard wrote.

    ÔÇ£In addition, the use of E15 will lower fuel efficiency and possibly cause premature engine failure,ÔÇØ he wrote. ÔÇ£Use of E15 fuel voids many manufacturer warranties. In off-road engines, the effects can even be dangerous for users.ÔÇØ

    Byron Bunker of the EPA National Vehicle and Fuel Emissions Laboratory, responded to the AMA on behalf of Jackson.

    ÔÇ£EPA requires that retail stations that own or operate blender pumps either dispense E15 from a dedicated hose and nozzle if able or, in the case of E15 and E10 being dispensed from the same hose, require that at least four gallons of fuel be purchased to prevent vehicles and engines with smaller fuel tanks from being exposed to gasoline-ethanol blended fuels containing greater than 10 volume percent ethanol,ÔÇØ Bunker wrote.

    ÔÇ£Additionally, EPA is requiring that retail stations that offer E10 and E15 from the same hose and nozzle use additional labeling to inform consumers about the minimum purchase requirement,ÔÇØ Bunker wrote.

    ÔÇ£Since motorcyclists and ATV users, as you suggest, have relatively small fuel tanks, they should pay careful attention to the labeling of blender pumps to ensure that an appropriate fuel is chosen, in this case E10 or E0,ÔÇØ he wrote.

    The problem with the new EPA policy is that not all motorcycle and ATV gas tanks hold four or more gallons.

    ÔÇ£Not only do we find it unacceptable for the EPA to mandate that our members buy minimum amounts of gas, but the EPA answer simply wonÔÇÖt work because of the sizes of many motorcycle and ATV gas tanks,ÔÇØ said Allard. ÔÇ£Furthermore, off-highway riders take containers of gas with them on their trips, and most times those containers are much smaller than four gallons.

    ÔÇ£The EPA needs to come up with a better solution,ÔÇØ he said. ÔÇ£The EPA also needs to back an independent study to determine whether E15 is safe for motorcycle and ATV engines.ÔÇØ

    The AMA has repeatedly expressed concerns to government officials and federal lawmakers about possible damage to motorcycle and ATV engines caused by the inadvertent use of E15 when the new fuel becomes widely available, and has asked that motorcycles and ATVs be part of any scientific study into the effects of E15.

    In October 2010, the EPA approved the use of E15 in model year 2007 and newer light-duty vehicles (cars, light-duty trucks and medium-duty passenger vehicles). Then, in January 2011, the EPA added model year 2001-2006 light-duty vehicles to the approved list.

    Riders should pay attention to this list because no motorcycles or ATVs are currently listed.

    The AMA is concerned about E15 because it burns hotter than gasoline that contains a lesser amount of ethanol. In engines not designed to dissipate that extra heat, damage in the form of premature wear can result. Although this is a concern in all motorcycles, it's particularly problematic for air-cooled engines found in many motorcycles and ATVs. Moreover, use of E15 may even void the manufacturer warranty.

    Since the approved list includes many light-duty vehicles in use today, refineries, distributors, and fueling stations may choose to offer primarily E15 gasoline because of this action by the EPA. The new EPA policy should concern all motorcyclists and off-highway enthusiasts because this can affect the availability of gasoline with less or no ethanol (E10 or E0).

    You can send a prewritten email to your senators and representative immediately by following the "Take Action" option and entering your information. The AMA encourages riders to personalize their message by drawing on their own personal riding experiences.

    Send a message to your federal lawmakers immediately, urging the EPA to come up with a better solution and to back an independent study to determine whether E15 is safe for motorcycle and ATV engines.

  2. #2
    Amateur Veteran R1200RClassic's Avatar
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    good info Paul, thanks.... btw, anyone know if Chevron 92 octain contains ethanol? Or is it state by state? I try to use only Chevron 92 and I even add 1oz/gallon of the additive to my fuel for added preventative cleaning insurance... I guess with the engines buring "some" oil, it's probably a good idea to keep some kind of cleaner runing thru the engine to prevent carbon buildup on the valives and pistons...
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    Registered User lmo1131's Avatar
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    Ya know what.. .. . ? Fk the Feds... .. Like my dear old dad (RIP) used to say, "I'm an American, I'll buy what I damned well please. .. . . ."
    "It is what you discover, after you know it all, that counts." _ John Wooden

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    Long Range Rifleman NI5L's Avatar
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    Read the following paragraph and think about it:

    "Byron Bunker of the EPA National Vehicle and Fuel Emissions Laboratory, responded to the AMA on behalf of Jackson.

    ÔÇ£EPA requires that retail stations that own or operate blender pumps either dispense E15 from a dedicated hose and nozzle if able or, in the case of E15 and E10 being dispensed from the same hose, require that at least four gallons of fuel be purchased to prevent vehicles and engines with smaller fuel tanks from being exposed to gasoline-ethanol blended fuels containing greater than 10 volume percent ethanol,ÔÇØ

    The EPA isn't mandating anything. Except that gas station owners that sell E15 make it clear to consumers that residual E15 may be present in the hose and to reduce any potential problem, they should purchase a minimum of 4 gallons to dilute it.

    I despise the EPA and am not defending them but it appears that AMA has twisted this around a bit to try to generate membership.
    Warren
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    Ave atque vale, my America.

  5. #5
    Morning Person
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    I use a Chevron station enroute to the favorite canyon ride...and use the highest octane they have (91 I think). The pump is labeled "contains up to 10% ethanol". Should I be trying to avoid ANY ethanol? Thanks.

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    Registered User ANDYVH's Avatar
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    I agree that the wording used is misleading. The EPA mandate is simply to dilute the E15 sufficiently with four gallons of non-ethanol fuel to offset the effects of E15.

    Therein is the real issue. The EPA acknowledges E15 is a problem (its actually crap) being forced on us by the government so it band-aids an answer with this bulls**t mandate. Luckily, in Wisconsin, we have many outlets to buy non-ethanol blended fuels.

    ALL ethanol use in fuels is crap: less mileage, worse economy, a subsidized/non cost effective product, using food to produce fuel, lobbyist manipulation of unknowing gov officials, MORE diesel fuel used to get the crap fuel to the fuel station, does NOT reduce our dependance on foreign oil. E10 and E15 should be boycotted entirely.
    Woodenshoe to Cheesehead

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    As this is a family place I cannot say what I really think of the EPA . nuf said

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    Long Range Rifleman NI5L's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ANDYVH View Post
    ALL ethanol use in fuels is crap: less mileage, worse economy, a subsidized/non cost effective product, using food to produce fuel, lobbyist manipulation of unknowing gov officials, MORE diesel fuel used to get the crap fuel to the fuel station, does NOT reduce our dependance on foreign oil. E10 and E15 should be boycotted entirely.
    Amen!
    Warren
    '97 R1100RT - My daily driver

    Ave atque vale, my America.

  9. #9
    Registered User arthurdent's Avatar
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    http://www.bmwmoa.org/forum/showthread.php?t=51521

    Long thread here, but heavily discussed about the use of ethanol. Especially telling is near the end where the use of e10 to improve air quality became an "energy independence" move, even though the total overall consumption of fuel has increased due to the lower energy content of ethanol blended fuel.

    Ethanol in air cooled vehicles is not a good plan, especially in hot weather. Don't think anyone will dispute this reality, though a few will try in spite of the evidence.

    e15 will become the new standard, making non/low ethanol fuels even more difficult to locate in much of the US. Perhaps the wretched corn crop this year will make the cost of ethanol blended fuels impractical, but I'm not holding my breath.

  10. #10
    Polarbear Polarbear's Avatar
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    Too politcal,ugly!

    Knowing politics are an ugly topic, ethanol ranks right UP there. You have an entity(Gov't), ramming down our throats an item they don't even buy. Never seen my rep at a gas station, "my whole life". I think they need badges/stickers, stating they are our reps in gov't service, so we can see'em consuming goods/gas. Caring about ethanol eating our pockets dry in repairs and the like is far from somebodies perspective, how ugly. I cannot afford E guidelines, so restrictive to eliminate my mobility. Ethanol kills engines, as we know'em in m/c's/marine industry,etc...Randy, Rancher with a thorn! Too much said

  11. #11
    Registered User ANDYVH's Avatar
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    In most every rating, there is an acceptable "tolerance" range. I would bet that we are already getting E10 fuel that is actually blended at higher than 10% ethanol to gas ratio. So when E15 becomes common, its likely some end users will be buying something closer to E18 or worse. So, even worse fuel mileage fro a fuel that makes no sense, or cents, for that matter.

    We are simply being sandbagged by the ethanol lobbyists and government and it really ticks me off. As it is now, I am limiting my fuel station purchases only to those suppliers here in Wisconsin that sell non-ethanol blended fuels. In many cases, if all I can get is E10, I'll buy only enough to get me to the next fuel station that sells the real gas.

    Recently did a five day tour around lake Superior. I noticed in Canada that every fuel pump I filled at made no mention of E10. Most also had stickers on the pump saying it was not "oxygenated fuel".
    Woodenshoe to Cheesehead

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    Registered User 36654's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NI5L View Post
    Read the following paragraph and think about it:

    "Byron Bunker of the EPA National Vehicle and Fuel Emissions Laboratory, responded to the AMA on behalf of Jackson.

    ÔÇ£EPA requires that retail stations that own or operate blender pumps either dispense E15 from a dedicated hose and nozzle if able or, in the case of E15 and E10 being dispensed from the same hose, require that at least four gallons of fuel be purchased to prevent vehicles and engines with smaller fuel tanks from being exposed to gasoline-ethanol blended fuels containing greater than 10 volume percent ethanol,ÔÇØ

    The EPA isn't mandating anything. Except that gas station owners that sell E15 make it clear to consumers that residual E15 may be present in the hose and to reduce any potential problem, they should purchase a minimum of 4 gallons to dilute it.

    I despise the EPA and am not defending them but it appears that AMA has twisted this around a bit to try to generate membership.
    You might as well save the effort. These folks aren't even reading the article. They're just saying the letter supports their claim/belief and ranting on.

    Heaven help us all if this is insightful dialogue
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  13. #13
    Registered User 36654's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ANDYVH View Post
    In most every rating, there is an acceptable "tolerance" range. I would bet that we are already getting E10 fuel that is actually blended at higher than 10% ethanol to gas ratio. So when E15 becomes common, its likely some end users will be buying something closer to E18 or worse. So, even worse fuel mileage fro a fuel that makes no sense, or cents, for that matter.

    We are simply being sandbagged by the ethanol lobbyists and government and it really ticks me off. As it is now, I am limiting my fuel station purchases only to those suppliers here in Wisconsin that sell non-ethanol blended fuels. In many cases, if all I can get is E10, I'll buy only enough to get me to the next fuel station that sells the real gas.

    Recently did a five day tour around lake Superior. I noticed in Canada that every fuel pump I filled at made no mention of E10. Most also had stickers on the pump saying it was not "oxygenated fuel".
    Only if ethanol is cheaper than gasoline. Otherwise, the gasoline retailers are losing money.
    Cave contents: 99 R11RS, 2013 Toyota Tacoma, 03 Simplicity Legacy, 97 Stihl FS75, Dewalt DW625 & DW744

  14. #14
    Registered User 36654's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ANDYVH View Post
    I agree that the wording used is misleading. The EPA mandate is simply to dilute the E15 sufficiently with four gallons of non-ethanol fuel to offset the effects of E15.

    Therein is the real issue. The EPA acknowledges E15 is a problem (its actually crap) being forced on us by the government so it band-aids an answer with this bulls**t mandate. Luckily, in Wisconsin, we have many outlets to buy non-ethanol blended fuels.

    ALL ethanol use in fuels is crap: less mileage, worse economy, a subsidized/non cost effective product, using food to produce fuel, lobbyist manipulation of unknowing gov officials, MORE diesel fuel used to get the crap fuel to the fuel station, does NOT reduce our dependance on foreign oil. E10 and E15 should be boycotted entirely.
    So, there's a wall at IA-WI border to prevent the ethanol trucks from crossing the border and the WI militia is conducting raids on the IA corn fields to prevent the corn production? How many IA federal and state legislators have been arrested and jailed in WI? Isn't there some corn production in southern WI? What do those congressmen vote for?
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