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Thread: standing on footpegs crazy GS riders

  1. #31
    Still Wondering mika's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rdubarton View Post
    Standing up on the footpegs will also raise the center of gravity, making you and your bike more top heavy.
    No it actually lowers the center of gravity. Counter intuitive I know but the load carried by the seat is shifted to the pegs and thus lowers the center of gravity increasing stability in the process.
    Pass the mustard and UP THE REVOLUTION!

    St. Paul Pioneer Press , Minneapolis Star Tribune

  2. #32
    100,000+ miler 32232's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mika View Post
    no it actually lowers the center of gravity. Counter intuitive i know but the load carried by the seat is shifted to the pegs and thus lowers the center of gravity increasing stability in the process.
    +1
    Dave

    '06 Triumph Scrambler (Trans-Labrador veteran)

  3. #33
    Cam Killer marchyman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mika View Post
    No it actually lowers the center of gravity. Counter intuitive I know but the load carried by the seat is shifted to the pegs and thus lowers the center of gravity increasing stability in the process.
    More accurately it converts a tightly coupled system (you and the bike joined at your butt) to a loosely coupled system where your knees act as a spring that lightly separates the mass of the bike from your mass. The CG of the bike is lowered. Your CG is raised. More importantly you can move your CG around. When riding in loose stuff the location of the CG may be more important than how high it is off the ground. Moving your body to put the CG over the contact patch helps control the bike.

  4. #34
    Still Wondering mika's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marchyman View Post
    More accurately it converts a tightly coupled system (you and the bike joined at your butt) to a loosely coupled system where your knees act as a spring that lightly separates the mass of the bike from your mass. The CG of the bike is lowered. Your CG is raised. More importantly you can move your CG around. When riding in loose stuff the location of the CG may be more important than how high it is off the ground. Moving your body to put the CG over the contact patch helps control the bike.
    Fools rush in where wise men fear to tread. This fool took Physics for Philosophers as part of my undergrad program which fully qualifies me as a fool in this discussion but one who likes to learn. My prof was a rider and often used motorcycles as examples.

    My take away was a fuzzy understanding that in this case you effectively changed the center of gravity(lowered it) by standing on the pegs. At the same time you changed the center of mass in two ways (effectively raised it as you stood while moving it forward nearer the front wheel). By changing the center of mass in relation to the lowered center of gravity you decreased the effort required to correct (balance) changes of input as you rode on an uneven surface. After that it is a blur of vector diagrams and memories of a lovely lass I met in that class, but I digress.

    Not being argumentative just really enjoy these kinds of discussions and learning. Really wish I understood it better and where that girl is now. But again I digress.
    Pass the mustard and UP THE REVOLUTION!

    St. Paul Pioneer Press , Minneapolis Star Tribune

  5. #35
    Cam Killer marchyman's Avatar
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    What allows the effective change to the center of inertial forces is the almost independent movement of rider and bike. Remove that partial independence and things change. Imagine the rider sitting on a saddle directly connected to the footpegs with steel rods. Raising the rider by making the steel rods longer will not lower the effective CoG.

    But I sucked at physics. Modeling a dynamic system like a bike in motion is hard.

  6. #36
    All-round Motorcyclist MarkM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mika View Post
    My take away was a fuzzy understanding that in this case you effectively changed the center of gravity(lowered it) by standing on the pegs. At the same time you changed the center of mass in two ways (effectively raised it as you stood while moving it forward nearer the front wheel)...
    In the hope of promoting understanding among the masses, I would like to suggest, recommend, and even assert that "center of gravity" and "center of mass" are two names for the same thing, at least as far as physics is concerned in this particular situation. Not to say that they are precisely the same thing in all cases, but for practical purposes they are the same for a rider and motorcycle on the surface of dear old planet earth. If you want absolute, irrefutable proof, you can read about it on Wikipedia, which everyone agrees is at least as reliable as an oilhead hall effect sensor.

    I've been enjoying the thread. Carry on.
    Mark M, St. Louis, '13 R1200GS, '01 Super Sherpa
    There are two roads in life; the twisty one is vastly more fun.

  7. #37
    Registered User arthurdent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkM View Post
    .. If you want absolute, irrefutable proof, you can read about it on Wikipedia, which everyone agrees is at least as reliable as an oilhead hall effect sensor.

    I've been enjoying the thread. Carry on.

  8. #38
    Still Wondering mika's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkM View Post
    ...snip...Wikipedia, which everyone agrees is at least as reliable as an oilhead hall effect sensor.

    I've been enjoying the thread. Carry on.

    Ah the old wikepedia dodge.

    You're trying to confuse me with facts when I have already reached my PCC, Peak Confusion Capacity. Clearly a waste of time.


    Alright let me carry on in a different line. In the normal riding position the weight of the rider is carried by three points the seat, foot pegs and handle bars. In the GS posture you are spreading it between two points. What are the concerns for the change of weight carried by the bars and rider input?

    Pass the mustard and UP THE REVOLUTION!

    St. Paul Pioneer Press , Minneapolis Star Tribune

  9. #39
    Registered User sit's Avatar
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    As our northern neighbors have been discussing here a bit, check with your local laws before you take to a life of standing on the pegs all the time. Some states may equate it to stunting, other, Oregon, just calls it, unlawful operation of a motorcycle. I would like to think that if you just stood up for a brief stretch, no one would bother you or if you were on a gravel road you could explain it away if stopped. But those folks you see going down the freeway for a mile or two standing or going through town standing block to block, they would most likely be stopped, if the cop knows about the statute. Even here, if there is a reason to stand briefly, trying to see a route through pot holes etc, sure you may be able to get away with it, but the statute is pretty broad and does not make allowances.

    So check local laws please.
    2005 K1200LT-Ocean Blue
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  10. #40
    Kbiker BCKRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sit View Post
    As our northern neighbors have been discussing here a bit, check with your local laws before you take to a life of standing on the pegs all the time. Some states may equate it to stunting, other, Oregon, just calls it, unlawful operation of a motorcycle. I would like to think that if you just stood up for a brief stretch, no one would bother you or if you were on a gravel road you could explain it away if stopped. But those folks you see going down the freeway for a mile or two standing or going through town standing block to block, they would most likely be stopped, if the cop knows about the statute. Even here, if there is a reason to stand briefly, trying to see a route through pot holes etc, sure you may be able to get away with it, but the statute is pretty broad and does not make allowances.

    So check local laws please.
    So, Oregon too! Checking "local laws" doesn't seem too practical for a person touring the US, Canada, or both on a bike. And the last thing you need on a trip is to run afoul of LEO's out to garner revenue from you from some basically unpublicized law.

    So, get a comfortable seat for your bike, and (on the highways) only stand when nobody is likely to see you. Same thing with speeding. Obey the law in towns; obey the law as you exit towns; go with the flow of traffic - if all the locals are sticking to the speed limit which you think is ridiculously low, they know something about local speed enforcement which you don't.
    Doug
    1992 K100RS

  11. #41
    Registered User DLilah's Avatar
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    It's definitely a necessity when riding a dirt bike. My hubby and I took a Moto Venture dirt bike class in California a few years ago, and actually spent 3 days straight of standing while riding. You do get used to shifting and braking while standing, but it takes some getting used to. The instructor would yell at us if she caught us sitting. It was probably the best workout we ever had, but we could barely walk for the next week.

    Also, we sat in on a David Hough talk/seminar at a rally several years ago, and he advocated standing up as well. As he said, don't be velcroed to the seat. Stand up and move around.

    Of course, in both cases, I think common sense should prevail. I generally stand up for brief periods to stretch during long rides. Never considered that I could get a ticket for this, but certainly will be more aware. And, when I take my Yamaha TW200 off road, I mostly stand. Haven't yet taken my GS off road, but I suspect I'll stand when I do that as well.
    D'Lilah
    2012 R1200GS / 2000 R1200C / 2002 Yamaha TW200

    My heart doesn't beat, it revs!!!

  12. #42
    Caribbean Druid
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    Just an FYI for Florida riders and visitors, Florida law says motorcycle operators must be seated when operating their vehicles on the public streets. Source: FL Statute 316.2085(2)

    That being said, I don't think a FL LEO is going to pull you for standing up and stretching, or positioning yourself to exercise control of the motorcycle if you have to maneuver the bike over an obstacle. Hope not, as my butt tends to get off the seat every now and then as well...

  13. #43
    Still Wondering mika's Avatar
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    At the top of an freeway interchange this evening on my way home from work I was passed by a guy seated on his Triumph Street Triple; complied with the seated part of the rule but was wheel walking and speeding while seated.

    I would hope (and believe) LEOs would exercise their judgement and discretion to apply and enforce a law in a reasonable way.
    Pass the mustard and UP THE REVOLUTION!

    St. Paul Pioneer Press , Minneapolis Star Tribune

  14. #44
    All-round Motorcyclist MarkM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mika View Post
    At the top of an freeway interchange this evening on my way home from work I was passed by a guy seated on his Triumph Street Triple; complied with the seated part of the rule but was wheel walking and speeding while seated.
    That's a new one on me. What's wheel walking?
    Mark M, St. Louis, '13 R1200GS, '01 Super Sherpa
    There are two roads in life; the twisty one is vastly more fun.

  15. #45
    Still Wondering mika's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkM View Post
    That's a new one on me. What's wheel walking?
    A seated 'wheel walking' clone of the guy



    Not that I have ever done that ...seated or on the pegs......
    Pass the mustard and UP THE REVOLUTION!

    St. Paul Pioneer Press , Minneapolis Star Tribune

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