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Thread: This Year's Attendance

  1. #76
    al from chgo burbs lilredroadster's Avatar
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    Market research??? I have been a member for many years and have never had anyone form the MOA ever ask how I feel about the July dates. I have also asked most of my fellow BMW riding friends and no one ever asked them either. Our group included several ambassadors as well as many long time members. September would make more sense. Most everyone has grown kids and I really dont think many teachers are mambers. Also, construction and heating/air conditioning workers would be better suited to September.
    Last edited by lilredroadster; 07-25-2012 at 01:03 PM.
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  2. #77
    Old man in the mountains osbornk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Visian View Post
    because we've done extensive market research and the majority of members want the rally then.

    also shown in research, the vendors wish to keep the rally when it is. These people not only make our rally appealing to attend, they also advertise in our magazine and web site, which helps make the whole show run.

    oh... and the volunteers who help run the rally are mainly available only in the summer, many people work nearly their entire vacation to help put on the event.

    Ian
    I don't like the rally being in July but consider the alternatives. Besides school still being open, early spring has a problem with tornados, flooding and other natural disasters that impact much of the country that would prevent a lot of people from attending even if the rally was not impacted.. September and later has the possibility of hurricanes and similar natural disasters that would also cause disruptions and prevent a lot of people from attending even if the rally was not in the disaster area. August is no better than July with regard to heat along with the first week or two of September. The only other practical available time would be the small window of late June. I spent 30+ years frequently working insurance disaster claims in the spring and/or fall far from home.
    'You can say what you want about the South, but I almost never hear of anyone wanting to retire to the North.

  3. #78
    Registered User nplenzick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redsky49 View Post
    And the minority of the members? Or the roughly 33,000 members that chose not to attend this year? What about them?

    Surely you can make a better argument than that.

    The point that I was making is that, just as the changing location creates opportunities for the various members to attend when they might otherwise not be able, so might the change of date open up the rally to those who have not been able to attend in July.

    I find myself championing this point primarily due to the intransigence of some members that seem to want things THE WAY WE WANT THINGS, DAMN IT!

    As others above have mentioned, perhaps quality rather than quantity (attendance numbers) is the important factor. Maybe every fourth year the Rally is a bit smaller, and maybe it is scheduled a little later in the season, and maybe it allows those members to attend who have never been able to due to the scheduling date. Don't those members also deserve consideration?

    That's it for me on this topic

    Forum gadfly signing off!
    This has been discussed many times every year but just in case you missed it here's just one reason not to have floating dates. Talk to any promoter ( and I do mean any) and they'll be the first to tell you that once you have a successful date you simply don't change it. It's why the Indy 500 is Memorial day, Sturgus is the first full week of August, Americade is the first week in June, GWRRA Wing Ding is around July 4, and on and on. Floating dates for any major event is financial suicide. There is simply no debating that.
    Now I as a vendor really wasn't crazy about going to Sedila, however I was surprised at how nice the event did turn out and even though it was hot on Thursday the rest of the time was pretty pleasant and all who attended had plenty of room in the AC buildings to cool off. I'm not pleased about next years location as many I have talked to on the east coast aren't planing on attending as they were just in that area two years ago so I would expect attendance to be in the 6K range.
    Many here want cooler locations and earlier or latter dates. If that really is the case with the majority of the MOA members then the local and regional rallies that are held during that time period would be swamped with attendees. That's simply not the case, instead their barley surviving. Heck where were all of you for the RA this past June in Colorado? Perfect weather in a great location, yet pathetic attendance.
    I've heard no one who attended this years MOA and the GWRRA Wing Ding in Fort Wayne, Ind (where it was much hotter by the way) complain and wanting to change the date of the rallies. Yet when one looks at this forum you would think that this is the majority. It simply is not. Those wanting to change the dates have not proved that they would attend at another time of year. As I mentioned last year on this forum, you can prove it to the MOA by supporting your local and regional events with record breaking attendance in the spring and fall. Until that happens I see no reason to change the date of the MOA.

  4. #79
    Registered User nytrashman's Avatar
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    Until that happens I see no reason to change the date of the MOA.
    you don't want the date changed because your a vendor and plan your rally schedule around set, know dates. by moving the national to a different date it might mean you will have to miss another rally (or the MOA rally) you attend as a vendor, which cuts into your profit margin. the more rallies you can attend, as a vendor, the more money you make.

    i have said it before and i will say it again, do not let the vendors decide when the rally should be held, let the membership make that decision.

    PS: love those coconut socks you sell. i have tried lots of socks over the years and these are absolutely the best i have ever used.

  5. #80
    Certifiable Old Fart beemerdons's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flyhi2cfar View Post
    redsky guy make good argument...
    +1, Gunny; redsky49 made some outstanding observations, the BOD should be listening!!
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  6. #81
    Registered User nplenzick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nytrashman View Post
    you don't want the date changed because your a vendor and plan your rally schedule around set, know dates. by moving the national to a different date it might mean you will have to miss another rally (or the MOA rally) you attend as a vendor, which cuts into your profit margin. the more rallies you can attend, as a vendor, the more money you make.

    i have said it before and i will say it again, do not let the vendors decide when the rally should be held, let the membership make that decision.

    PS: love those coconut socks you sell. i have tried lots of socks over the years and these are absolutely the best i have ever used.
    I'm also a member and a very good observer. One of the reasons people attend is because of the vendors. Don't care about the vendors? Simply have a MOA in Canada and see how many vendors and attendees participate. Don't care if many come? See how quick the MOA ether raises your membership fees or simple stops national rallies altogether. Simple put these rallies including the local ones need to make money, if they don't they go the way of the Honda Hoot. It's really as simple as that.
    Glad you like the socks, we sold out on Saturday.

  7. #82
    sMiling Voni's Avatar
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    One of the highlights of a National Rally is the vendor building. In this case, FOUR of them! Sure would hate to miss seeing and touching and trying all that stuff we drool over in the magazine!

    Not to mention the great deals!

    Another point to consider . . .

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  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by 40427 View Post
    I did not make it this year, and the only other MOA rally i ever attended was a long time ago. I waited until the last minute to cancel my hotel in Warsaw hoping the "weather would fall within the parameters I choose to be out doors in".
    It didn't and i didn't.

    I belong to a group of New Bonneville riders ( yes they allow me to ride with them on a BMW) we hold a rally every spring in the same location.
    We started in another spot 9 or 10 years ago, but the ability to get food and drink was limited so we made a collective decision to move.

    Every year we have the stalwarts who always show, and every year we get new riders.
    We hold no seminars, no scheduled rides, and the vendors who do come are taking a vacation with us and don't bring anything to sell.
    Thus far I have never heard anyone complain that they were tired of riding the same roads. Maybe that's because there are so many great ones to explore in the area. We fill up an entire motel and spill over in to one or two more, yes we do have some campers.

    We decided to have a fall "Gathering" as we call it and by design we move it around every couple of years to a different location. This is driven by the fact that some folks have difficulty getting as far away at that time of the year. The first guy who speaks about the next location for the "Gathering" is "it "so to speak and then steps up and finds the next location.

    I would tell you the locations, but since we do not have seminars, hold scheduled events, or have vendors you all would not be interested in the old fashioned comaraderie we enjoy.
    Oh yea, we probably would not be comfortable with 5000+ riders around

    Did i mention that I truly prefer a smaller rally than the bigger ones, but if the weather were right for me I would love to attend another MOA event.
    Smaller rallies are great. They are some to the best ones I've been to, but the large rallies have their place too. At the nationals like we just had, I do not do any riding. I have my bike parked for the whole weekend, as there's just so much to do at these rallies. If I do any riding in connection with the rally, it's going to be before or after the event and being that it's been so hot the last couple of rallies, I just head straight home instead. Which brings up the issue of where we have these rallies. Since the weather lately is not conducive to enjoyable riding, why don't we put the rally in a setting more amenable to what most people do at a rally, which is shop with vendors, go to seminars, visit the beer tent, and listen to music. It seems to me a university would be a good place to have one, as they are usually not busy in the summer, and have the facilities that we need. Rally goers could stay in air conditioned dorms and be able to walk to do shopping, seminars, or music events. I myself liked having the event in Charleston WV because I could stay in a comfortable hotel room and walk to the vendor area and take a shuttle to the beer garden and not have to worry about getting back on the bike after doing so. The way most rallies are now, at lot of people who in hotels are far away from the rally and must leave early to return to their hotels and don't participate in the evening's activities.

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilredroadster View Post
    Market research??? I have been a member for many years and have never had anyone form the MOA ever ask how I feel about the July dates. I have also asked most of my fellow BMW riding friends and no one ever asked them either....
    I know I wasn't involved in any market research either, but it is often referred to. Why not just pose the question on the next MOA ballot? Or a controlled on line survey?


    Future Rally Date Survey. Please check one.


    1) Always hold the MOA rally in mid July.


    2) Expand the Rally date option to allow the months of May through September, with the traditional July date to be chosen at least every other year.
    14 R1200GSA, 93 R100R. No car is as fun to drive as any motorcycle is to ride.

  10. #85
    Registered User nytrashman's Avatar
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    I know I wasn't involved in any market research either, but it is often referred to. Why not just pose the question on the next MOA ballot? Or a controlled on line survey?


    Future Rally Date Survey. Please check one.


    1) Always hold the MOA rally in mid July.


    2) Expand the Rally date option to allow the months of May through September, with the traditional July date to be chosen at least every other year.

    if the board did this they might not get the results they want, which is to hold the rally in July. it seems to me there are underlying reasons they don't want to move the rally dates as there are a myriad of excuses/reasons why the dates can't be changed. never once i have heard the board encourage an open discussion on the pro's & con's of changing the rally dates. why is that?

  11. #86
    Roadster Rider sjbmw's Avatar
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    What about the worker bees?

    I guess as a member I got 2 pence....

    My son and I did not make Sedalia due to work commitments. We did spend an entire week in Bloomsburg last year.
    (We did attend Johnson City, West Bend, Burlington prior; MOA Nationals are the bees knees)

    He was in Camp Gears last year, finally old enough to ride (If you have a youngin' hankering to ride, CG is a must), and me, I became a lugger for Mon, Tues, Wed...

    I, along with new friends, did whatever was asked. We set up a dozens of tables in the vendor buildings, set up the stage equipment (and not a groupie to be found, roadies are so full of bull), and I spent a some shifts at the registration tent, and was on hand for whoever raced up in a golf cart with that "our deadline is coming fast" look on their face.

    One thing I have noticed after 8 year of MOA membership the long list of repeating names in the Rally Chair pages of my Owner's News.
    These are the people that are giving up a lot to make the rally happen. They are not getting paid either. I have no idea what it takes to build a fully functioning city for 6-10,000 people for 4 days, and then take it apart in 36 hours like it was never there. Put me in that job, and the complaint dept would need it's own rally chairperson and dozens of volunteers.

    I do have enough respect for the job itself to help out and understand that it's not possible to make thousands of people happy all at once.
    To vote a new month for the rally and not have the buy-in of the people that actually make the rally happen year after year is rally suicide.
    There is no rally without these volunteers.

    I would like to see some posts of all the work that went into the rally, (all the way down to the sanitation smells) and then we can see who is going to step up and take over these jobs when a date change puts our existing volunteers out of action due to commitments that they clear out for 2 weeks in July each year. Let's see who puts on a jersey and gets in the game.

    I suspect it's possible the weather could be 10 degress cooler, but the logistical details that we never notice, and take for granted at the MOA National, will get noticed. And then we would have an entire new set of complaints from those who did attend as the law of unintended consequences takes over.

    IMHO, I would suffer the complaints of those who never attend rather than create compaints of those that do attend. I agree if Spring and Fall are the rally dates most treasured then regional events should be overflowing. As a committee person for a east coast rally in the fall, I can testify that this is not the case.
    Attendance is struggling all over regardless of dates.
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  12. #87
    OldBMWMaster JDOCKERY132445's Avatar
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    Well said

    Quote Originally Posted by sjbmw View Post
    I guess as a member I got 2 pence....

    My son and I did not make Sedalia due to work commitments. We did spend an entire week in Bloomsburg last year.
    (We did attend Johnson City, West Bend, Burlington prior; MOA Nationals are the bees knees)

    He was in Camp Gears last year, finally old enough to ride (If you have a youngin' hankering to ride, CG is a must), and me, I became a lugger for Mon, Tues, Wed...

    I, along with new friends, did whatever was asked. We set up a dozens of tables in the vendor buildings, set up the stage equipment (and not a groupie to be found, roadies are so full of bull), and I spent a some shifts at the registration tent, and was on hand for whoever raced up in a golf cart with that "our deadline is coming fast" look on their face.

    One thing I have noticed after 8 year of MOA membership the long list of repeating names in the Rally Chair pages of my Owner's News.
    These are the people that are giving up a lot to make the rally happen. They are not getting paid either. I have no idea what it takes to build a fully functioning city for 6-10,000 people for 4 days, and then take it apart in 36 hours like it was never there. Put me in that job, and the complaint dept would need it's own rally chairperson and dozens of volunteers.

    I do have enough respect for the job itself to help out and understand that it's not possible to make thousands of people happy all at once.
    To vote a new month for the rally and not have the buy-in of the people that actually make the rally happen year after year is rally suicide.
    There is no rally without these volunteers.

    I would like to see some posts of all the work that went into the rally, (all the way down to the sanitation smells) and then we can see who is going to step up and take over these jobs when a date change puts our existing volunteers out of action due to commitments that they clear out for 2 weeks in July each year. Let's see who puts on a jersey and gets in the game.

    I suspect it's possible the weather could be 10 degress cooler, but the logistical details that we never notice, and take for granted at the MOA National, will get noticed. And then we would have an entire new set of complaints from those who did attend as the law of unintended consequences takes over.

    IMHO, I would suffer the complaints of those who never attend rather than create compaints of those that do attend. I agree if Spring and Fall are the rally dates most treasured then regional events should be overflowing. As a committee person for a east coast rally in the fall, I can testify that this is not the case.
    Attendance is struggling all over regardless of dates.
    Thanks for outlining your participation in past rallies; it makes it clear that you are NOT one of the constant whiners on the forum.

    I agree with your points and I too would like to know how many of these internet posters have met more than a couple of the other MOA members at a rally, or if they have ever attended a MOA National/International.

    I rode over 1200 miles within a 24 hour time span and I have no complaints about the people I met, the people I worked with or the jobs done by any of the volunteers. It was a great rally and was run by great hard-working folks.

    If the board does a survey, I hope they weight the responses so that the opinion of a regular rally attendee gets more attention that these no-show couch queens.
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  13. #88
    Registered User Rapid_Roy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redsky49 View Post
    And the minority of the members? Or the roughly 33,000 members that chose not to attend this year? What about them?*snip*
    Why do you hate Democracy?


    Kidding.
    Those who go and have fun every year (or almost every year, in my case), know when the date is and what to expect. We also bring our fun from home.
    We then get 10k people attending.
    The weather may keep some folks home. Having it in September will keep people who work at schools from attending, or those want to bring their kids. It may also keep away Yankees because of weather, and having it in Spring could mean the same for us Northerners.
    I may not be able to get enough time of to go to Oregon next year, so I will plan something else. That is just the way it is from my perspective.
    19 BMWMOA Nationals under my belt, and I have no idea what I am doing.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDOCKERY132445 View Post
    If the board does a survey, I hope they weight the responses so that the opinion of a regular rally attendee gets more attention that these no-show couch queens.
    IMO 1 vote per member. Giving more weight to July rally attendees would just sway the results.

    Over the years I've attended many national rallies including the rally last year in Bloomsburg. This year I guess I was a couch queen . We chose to avoid the heat and have our own rally riding the BRP and camping where it was comfortable.
    14 R1200GSA, 93 R100R. No car is as fun to drive as any motorcycle is to ride.

  15. #90
    Registered User nytrashman's Avatar
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    If the board does a survey, I hope they weight the responses so that the opinion of a regular rally attendee gets more attention that these no-show couch queens.
    what constitutes a regular rally goer? is it someone who goes to 3 out of 4 rallies? is it someone who goes to every rally? is it someone who goes to every rally east of the rockies? wether i go to the rally or not does not matter, i pay the same amount in dues as the guy or gal that goes to every single rally, so my opinion should matter equally, if not then please reduce my membership dues accordingly.

    if you ask only the die hards who go to damn near every rally come hell or high water (or in this case high temps) or poll just the people who are at the rally itself you are excluding the people who stayed home for various reasons. this will give you biased results and result in getting the results you want, which is to keep the rally in July. if you poll as many members as you can, the ones who are at the rally as well as the members who stayed home you will get a much more accurate results as to what the majority of the membership wants.

    And a couple of them are in nearly every thread in the "Rally Forum". I have to ask; if you did not go to this rally, you did not go to last year's rally::::which rally did you attend? Have you ever been to one? Did you ever go to one that you enjoyed?

    i volunteered in WY and again in TN. as much as i would like to be able to volunteer at every rally i attend that is not possible for various reasons. i have enjoyed all the rallies i have been to, some more then others. i stayed home last year and again this year as i get no joy riding or camping in 100 degree temps.

    i voice my opinion because i care about this organization. i want to see it grow and thrive in the coming years and not become stagnant due to offering the same old same old. if i didn't' care and i didn't go to a rally for whatever reason i wouldn't be posting here trying to get the board to do an honest poll of all the members, not just the ones who are at the rally.

    as i have said in a previous post i have never seen the board encourage an open & honest discussion on wether the rally dates should be changed. it seems to be such a hot button issue that i would think this would be something they would be interested in trying to resolve. a live webcast from the board addressing this issue, an online poll, a mail in poll in the owners news as well as polling the rally attendees should yield accurate results as to what the majority of the members want as far as when our national rally is held.

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