More on BMW brake line failures

[Bmandiego]

yeah, wow...
I'm surprised they functioned at all.

[ANDYVH]

What some of those pictures show is the eventual degradation of the synthetic rubber inner tube material over time. Most synthetic rubber materials (neoprene, nitrile, viton) degrade over time and soften/swell. Chemical compatibility of synthetic rubber materials is based on the amount of swelling/softening over time and how much of the virgin materials structural properties are lost due to fluid exposure.

Some reactions can be fairly quick and very harsh (water above 180 degrees F is a tough one for neoprene) on materials. Others take more time, but do still result in the swelling evident in the pictures. A combination of chemical attack, along with thermal attack, flexing/twisting all factor into reducing effective hose life. Teflon as an inner tube material is very stable and because it does not contain any synthetic rubber elastomers, it does not soften/swell/ collapse over time. Teflon is also a structurally stronger inner tube even without the SS outer protective braid.

[cehlbeck]

Here's pictures of the front line on the 01 F650 I just replaced.
The inner core is completely rotten and crumbling.
FYI : The bike had annual fluid replacements.

YIKES! I thought mine was bad. At least on mine you could still see the hole.

[155747]

Interesting thread!

I just noticed that the point where the flexible line (OEM) enters the s/s ferule bolted to the rear caliper has a slight 'weep' when pushing the rear brake pedal (2008 R1200RT with about 35,000 KM) and wondered if this was unusual. I suspect from reading this thread that its not.

BMW had a recall a couple of years ago for this model due to front brake line failures and mine were replaced under this program. Is anyone aware of leakage problems from the rear line?

[stagewex]

Wow...this was great information between the brake-line fail pictures and Andy's explanation. Especially the part about DOT regulations that previously okayed the inferior hose simply because it could be labeled. Jeez, Love them government regulations.

I'm leaving for a weeks vacation with the family and beagle in about an hour, up and around Newport, R. I. They are driving up and I am riding up. Have been going back-and-forth about whether to ride up the r1100rt (fun for me) or the Ural Sidecar Rig (fun for me and a bit more inclusive). They are both prepped and ready to go. Knowing that the 16 year old brake lines on the BMW have never been changed I think I'll take the Ural. I'll take these postings as a gentle warning and order some new lines while I'm away. Replace and flush the brake systems when I get back.

So there are plenty of SS lines out there. But the better type that I'm gathering here is SS covered "teflon". Any particular brand y'all recommend? Do they come exact size that you need like the OEM would from BMW?

Thanks,

Mike Wex
'96 r1100rt

[ANDYVH]

Brake lines don't necessarily fail at a given age. Though, they do soften (internally) over time. All depends on the maintenance of the brake system. So I would not be too concerned that way.

All of the S/S braided brake hoses are teflon inner tube construction that I know of. There may be some that claim "kevlar reinforced" but I see no gain in that, as the tube is still teflon. And Kevlar tends to wear on itself in high flexing. Not that many people actually make the hose (Parker, Aeroquip, Stratoflex, and some foreign brands are the most common), but the suppliers themselves generally do not make the hose (Gafer, Russell, Speigler, Braking, etc)

[OLSENSAN]

Who sells the the stainless steel/teflon tubed brake hose for our machines?

[MysticRed]

I just pulled my brake lines and went into the House of Hose in Spokane, WA and stood there for a 1/2 an hour and walked out with a perfectly fitted set.

[Bmandiego]

I bought the Speigler Stainless lines.

[gporterie]

I just pulled my brake lines and went into the House of Hose in Spokane, WA and stood there for a 1/2 an hour and walked out with a perfectly fitted set.

Hi Scott, did you get their Stainless Steel Braided Hose?
www.spokanehose.com/product.php?id=7062

Fittings?

How much did both sets cost?

[ANDYVH]

Brakequip,....Brakequip,....couldn't figure out why that sounded familiar. Then I recall seeing some of their crimper machines at a local high production hose shop I work with (and no, they don't do retail sales or make SS braided hose assemblies).

Went to the Brakequip site and their products do look familiar. What is interesting is they do not manufacture or sell the SS braided hose. Same for House of Hose or any hydraulic hose distributor like them. Just be aware, when a distributor like House of Hose, or company like Spiegler, Galfer, Russel, etc, sell a brake hose assembly, it is up to them to prove the combination of their hose end fittings are properly crimped onto the hose, and that the assemblies are proven by testing.

As simple as it looks to crimp/swage a hose end onto "any ol hose", you'd be surprised how many ways there are to screw it up. Certainly never leave your brake hose assemblies in the hands of some kid who was just flippin burgers two weeks ago.

[6833]

I bought a 1998 r1100rsl 75th with 7450 miles on it, I have had the brakes bled, but when I nail the brakes it stops, but I don't feel the ABS kickiing in. I was told by my dealer that to fix this it would be $2500.00 Help!!!

[jrgporsche]

My 2001 R1100RT original front brake line failed on the way home from the 2012 national rally. 2200 mile round trip and it fails 80 miles from home when I had stopped to let a rain cloud pass. When I got back on, the brakes felt strange and then I noticed the puddle and the last squirt of fluid. I got lucky.

Spiegler lines with extra length for my handlebar setup were on the way the next day. Quality product and good service.

[183886]

I recently purchased a 95 k75. The fluid was
Brown from six years of storage. While trying to flush the
Fluid from the lines, one or both of the calipers hung up.
The brakes felt fine before i tried to flush them, but now the
Master cylinder does not return quickly. I have new pads
Because one on the front just barely passed, and i assumed
One of the pistons was hung up, seeing as the pad was very
Thin and the piston was out to near its limit and got cocked
In the bore. I have a rebuild kits for the front--- but now i obviously need
To buy new brake lines. Any sugestion on who offerds the best
Priced ss braided lines?

Thanks for the great photos

[ANDYVH]

"I bought a 1998 r1100rsl 75th with 7450 miles on it, I have had the brakes bled, but when I nail the brakes it stops, but I don't feel the ABS kickiing in. I was told by my dealer that to fix this it would be $2500.00 Help!!!"

Being from Wisconsin I bet I know your dealer choices. May want to come up to Green Bay for a checkup. When you say you "nail the brakes" but no ABS may mean you're simply not on the brakes hard enough. That vintage of ABS system takes some effort to get the ABS to engage. But other more telling issues:
1. Does the ABS pump "cycle" when the bike first moves out after startup?
2. Does the ABS pump routinely "cycle" test itself after coming to a stop at random times?
3. Are the ABS lights off when in motion? Or are the ABS lights flashing alternately?

If it doesn't do #1 and #2, or if the lights are flashing, then there is a problem. If it does everything normally, then you may just need more ABS practice. $2500 for an ABS repair sounds like the dealer wants to replace the ABS modulator with a $2000 new part.