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Thread: Yet another issue with my 2012 K1600 GT

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by espressoforyou View Post
    David Telfer has a new 1600 that now has 3 cracked pistons after having the oil changed at his local dealer. The bike has been in the shop for 4 months waiting for BMW to ship a new engine.
    I don't know if Mr. Telfer is too blame or not so I won't comment on his scenario. I have experience with a brand new S1000RR which had blown up and it took NA approximately 4 to 8 weeks (I don't remember exactly any longer) to decide to give him a replacement unit.

    Not to heap all the blame on BMW: Many years ago, over the course of a few years, I had issues with two unrelated motorcycles and they both happened to have been Honda's. We as a dealership were not able to get either unit to run correctly. Honda's regional service rep was not able to get them to run correctly. Both examples went on for longer than 3 weeks and as we neared a month I felt the customer had been patient enough. Honda wasn't willing to hand out a replacement unit to either customer as they felt if man made it man can fix it. No doubt that is a valid statement but what about the customer who laid their money out for the purchase... how long should they wait for repair? No answer was forthcoming.

    I, meaning the dealership, gave both customers brand new replacements as the OEM continued to wallow in the decision making process. The problem units were eventually repaired and there were no further issues with either one of them. We lost whatever we lost on each of those units but that falls under the belief you must operate your store in a profitable enough manner to take care of customers properly. To do otherwise isn't fair to the customer, employees or the dealer principle.

    By the way, as far as the S1000RR issue was concerned, the dealer did hand out a replacement unit prior to BMW decision making taking place.

    The above examples are why we have Lemon Laws. If the dealerships involved here had waited for the OEM decision making process to arrive at a conclusion the customers would have had to wait even longer to know what was going on. This is after all 3 customers had fully paid for their brand new motorcycle purchases. Sad to say but these laws were put in place because many dealers out there would have done zero for the customer and left it up to the OEM's involved.

    What a wonderful world we live in...

  2. #32
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    Billy, you are correct

    In that it did not cure their corporate arrogance though the judge did make them bleed. I am a forensic psychologist by trade and deal with many who are not possessed of any sort of functional empathy, much-less a sense of fair play. It is my considered professional opinion that the only recourse is to make them bleed until such time that it is too uncomfortable for them to continue to bleed whereupon they simply do the right thing in order to stop the blood. Sad but true.

    Regards,

    Will

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by will3hawks View Post
    In that it did not cure their corporate arrogance though the judge did make them bleed. I am a forensic psychologist by trade and deal with many who are not possessed of any sort of functional empathy, much-less a sense of fair play. It is my considered professional opinion that the only recourse is to make them bleed until such time that it is too uncomfortable for them to continue to bleed whereupon they simply do the right thing in order to stop the blood. Sad but true.

    Regards,

    Will
    Very true. Some companies need to bleed out in order to discover their wrongs.

    Attitude comes from the top. It gradually works its way thru the corporation by employees who don't stop to question what their being told. After all they've got bills to pay. And, the circle of wrong completes its mission. Employees get promoted and the vicious circle begins anew.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by billy walker View Post
    Telephone numbers for the regional service rep's are not handed out to customers. They are not there to interface with customers. That is considered a dealer responsibility even if the issue turns extreme. The rep position is meant for dealers only.
    I can't say with complete certainty, but I would have to agree with Mr. Walker. When I had a problem with my 2012 GTL I tried my best to talk to the BMW dealer rep but all I got were his comments via my dealer. It would appear that BMW really doesn't want customers to confront the BMW reps face to face for fear of what may transpire between them. Let's face it, it is much easier to say "no" to someone when you aren't talking to them directly.

    I sold the 2012 and bought a 2013 hoping things might be different engine and driveline wise, but in reality they are virtually identical. The saving grace on the 2013 is my dealer gave me a fair shake on the price and some add-ons plus the interest rate I obtained was outstanding. I am not a BMW Kool-Aid drinker and while I am not completely happy with my 2013 GTL it will have to do for now. BMW could really take some lessons from some other motorcycle manufacturers in improving their customer service profile, but unless something dramatic happens I don't think that is gonna happen.

    Rick

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by billy walker View Post
    Attitude comes from the top. .
    That is the main problem. As long as top jobs at BMW Motorcycle are regarded as transition assignments to higher level positions in the bMW corporation, nothing will change. These guys are there for a relatively short period of time and are not interested in customer elations. Their interest is their relations to management above.

    We had a discussion inside our corporation about existing problems and shortfalls and how to fix them and I told one of the "senior leaders": "In most cases, you will not see a problem with a bridge from the top or the surface you drive on. You need to go underneath and look up. Then you may see what's wrong"

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by motorcop@wi.rr.com View Post
    I can't say with complete certainty, but I would have to agree with Mr. Walker. When I had a problem with my 2012 GTL I tried my best to talk to the BMW dealer rep but all I got were his comments via my dealer. It would appear that BMW really doesn't want customers to confront the BMW reps face to face for fear of what may transpire between them. Let's face it, it is much easier to say "no" to someone when you aren't talking to them directly.

    I sold the 2012 and bought a 2013 hoping things might be different engine and driveline wise, but in reality they are virtually identical. The saving grace on the 2013 is my dealer gave me a fair shake on the price and some add-ons plus the interest rate I obtained was outstanding. I am not a BMW Kool-Aid drinker and while I am not completely happy with my 2013 GTL it will have to do for now. BMW could really take some lessons from some other motorcycle manufacturers in improving their customer service profile, but unless something dramatic happens I don't think that is gonna happen.

    Rick
    The thing is, the continued purchase of their products while being dissatisfied just encourages their behavior. A company will believe it does the right thing so long as they are profitable/successful. Stockholders and the BoD will put up with all sorts of non-sense if that is true. When they aren't successful, then people start looking under the bridge.
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  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by ponch1 View Post
    The thing is, the continued purchase of their products while being dissatisfied just encourages their behavior. A company will believe it does the right thing so long as they are profitable/successful. Stockholders and the BoD will put up with all sorts of non-sense if that is true. When they aren't successful, then people start looking under the bridge.

    I agree 100% Ponch1. I had hoped that the 2013 would have some of the irritating nuances worked out of it but my timing was off. I probably should have waited a year or two before buying another K1600, but at my age you can't dic around much. Ya don't live forever unfortunately.

    Rick

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by motorcop@wi.rr.com View Post
    I agree 100% Ponch1. I had hoped that the 2013 would have some of the irritating nuances worked out of it but my timing was off. I probably should have waited a year or two before buying another K1600, but at my age you can't dic around much. Ya don't live forever unfortunately.

    Rick
    Forever? Hell no. Unfortunately, priorities are more of a killer and combined with the vagaries of employment, sometimes things get stuck for awhile.
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  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMSimon View Post
    That is the main problem. As long as top jobs at BMW Motorcycle are regarded as transition assignments to higher level positions in the bMW corporation, nothing will change. These guys are there for a relatively short period of time and are not interested in customer elations. Their interest is their relations to management above. .............
    Don't any of these people actually think about the customer? That is why we have job's... because of customers. How quickly that seems to be lost on people. The one's at the top are so quick to take their multi-million dollar payday however. How many of them will mix it up with a customer to actually see how the customer feels? Sad, sad story all over the place.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by ponch1 View Post
    The thing is, the continued purchase of their products while being dissatisfied just encourages their behavior. A company will believe it does the right thing so long as they are profitable/successful. Stockholders and the BoD will put up with all sorts of non-sense if that is true. When they aren't successful, then people start looking under the bridge.
    Amen, amen and amen!! I am one of the guilty ones as I'm dumb enough to keep buying from them.

    If you're up for a chuckle read this right out of Wikipedia:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorcycle Once on the page go down to the section entitled "Reliability" and read the entire section.

  11. #41
    Old man in the mountains osbornk's Avatar
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    Without commenting on the BMW management response to problems, I have a little different view of the reliability issues of BMWs. Old and time tested technology is more reliable than new and innovative technology. In the car world, the ancient Toyota Corolla is one of the most reliable vehicles and is still plugging along with a 4 speed automatic transmission. Some of the most advanced cars are regularly bashed because of glitches or people misusing new and innovative technology.

    I remember when my Dad would not buy a car with an automatic transmission, power steering or electronic ignition because they broke and he couldn't fix them.

    I like reliable but I don't like riding or driving something that time has passed by. BMW has been a leader in bring new technology to motorcycles and that brings the risk of problems.
    'You can say what you want about the South, but I almost never hear of anyone wanting to retire to the North.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by osbornk View Post
    Without commenting on the BMW management response to problems, I have a little different view of the reliability issues of BMWs. Old and time tested technology is more reliable than new and innovative technology. In the car world, the ancient Toyota Corolla is one of the most reliable vehicles and is still plugging along with a 4 speed automatic transmission. Some of the most advanced cars are regularly bashed because of glitches or people misusing new and innovative technology.

    I remember when my Dad would not buy a car with an automatic transmission, power steering or electronic ignition because they broke and he couldn't fix them.

    I like reliable but I don't like riding or driving something that time has passed by. BMW has been a leader in bring new technology to motorcycles and that brings the risk of problems.
    And that risk can be lessened with proper QA/QC and manufacturing by vendors. This is my first BMW. Before that I owned only Kawasaki. The BMW is much more sophisticated than the Kaws I owned, but like you said, simpler bikes are more reliable. What the exercise has done is teach me what I need to have in purchasing a bike, what I can live without and what to avoid. I understand the schnapps flavored Kool-Aid, but it still is Kool-Aid. It really comes down to accepting the Kool-Aid or not.
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  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by billy walker View Post
    Amen, amen and amen!! I am one of the guilty ones as I'm dumb enough to keep buying from them.

    If you're up for a chuckle read this right out of Wikipedia:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorcycle Once on the page go down to the section entitled "Reliability" and read the entire section.
    You're a wiseguy.
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