Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 ... LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 67

Thread: Bringing my R60/5 back to life.

  1. #16
    Administrator 20774's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    San Antonio, TX
    Posts
    12,898
    1) will the longer drive shaft bolts with the lock washers work well / better?
    You really should get the right bolts, that is the shorter ones. BMW went away from the long bolts that used split lock washers. The washer would break, thus releasing the tension on the bolts. Short bolts, clean and dry, with blue loctite is the way to go.

    2) what kind of torque does everything need when putting it back together? My guess based on what was on there is 50lbs on the flywheel bolts, 25lbs on the clutch bolts, and closer to 100lbs on the swing arm bolts. The drive shaft seems like you just tighten them as much as you can with a short wrench.
    What does your manual say? Snowbum has torques listed on his website.
    Kurt -- Forum Administrator ---> Resources and Links Thread <---
    '78 R100/7 & '69 R69S & '52 R25/2
    mine-ineye-deatheah-pielayah-jooa-kalayus. oolah-minane-hay-meeriah-kal-oyus-algay-a-thaykin', buddy!

  2. #17
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    48
    I will double check snowbum's and Duane's sites. I know popular opinion sometimes drifts from the manual, but I suppose that would be a good starting point.

    Can I re-use the ones I took out? I think I should order a new boot, so I may as well get the bolts at the same time.

  3. #18
    Registered User lmo1131's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Pismo Beach, CA
    Posts
    3,008
    My guess based on what was on there is 50lbs on the flywheel bolts, 25lbs on the clutch bolts, and closer to 100lbs on the swing arm bolts. The drive shaft seems like you just tighten them as much as you can with a short wrench.
    You really need to stop guessing at this stuff... i.e. swing arm pivot pin (swing arm "bolts" ?) is only torqued to 7.5 ft.lbs, and they are pre-loaded to 15ft.lb. and then backed off to 7.5ft.lb. The 27mm nut that locks them is torqued to 72ft.ft.

    This is one of the refs from the Resource links Kurt mentioned, it's a '78 spec sheet, but is good on the /5 http://www.bmwmoa.org/forum/attachme...7&d=1322327944

    Here are the rest > http://www.bmwmoa.org/forum/showthread.php?t=47142

    and no, you can not (or should not) reuse the old drive shaft bolts... do so at your own peril.
    "It is what you discover, after you know it all, that counts." _ John Wooden

    Lew Morris
    1973 R75/5 - original owner

  4. #19
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    48
    thanks. It was my estimate, not something I would move forward with.

  5. #20
    Administrator 20774's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    San Antonio, TX
    Posts
    12,898
    Quote Originally Posted by Lmo1131 View Post
    and no, you can not (or should not) reuse the old drive shaft bolts... do so at your own peril.
    In a full rebuild situation, taking your time, it really does make sense to get new bolts. But, as discussed on another recent thread, if the old bolts thread into the flange easily with the fingers, that would indicate they haven't stretched out of shape and could...emphasis with could...be reused.
    Kurt -- Forum Administrator ---> Resources and Links Thread <---
    '78 R100/7 & '69 R69S & '52 R25/2
    mine-ineye-deatheah-pielayah-jooa-kalayus. oolah-minane-hay-meeriah-kal-oyus-algay-a-thaykin', buddy!

  6. #21
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    48
    I am not in a huge rush, I will order the new ones. I am out of town as of tomorrow anyways, so the order should line up nicely.

    Does anyone have the part number for the short bolts?

    The PN I haveis 26111230414, but I am pretty certain that is the long version, since it shows the washers as well.

    Thanks again.

  7. #22
    Administrator 20774's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    San Antonio, TX
    Posts
    12,898
    Try 26 11 1 242 297.
    Kurt -- Forum Administrator ---> Resources and Links Thread <---
    '78 R100/7 & '69 R69S & '52 R25/2
    mine-ineye-deatheah-pielayah-jooa-kalayus. oolah-minane-hay-meeriah-kal-oyus-algay-a-thaykin', buddy!

  8. #23
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    48
    It looks like northwoods airhead has them (his part number is Part # 1320), as well as the oil pump cover bolts. I need to order a few more things from him anyways. That way I can grab the drive shaft bolt torque wrench adaptor at the same time.

  9. #24
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    48
    Finally received my (hopefully) last order of parts for my clutch replacement (including short driveshaft bolts, new boot for the drive shaft, and oil pump cover bolts).

    I started to re-assemble the clutch. While reading up on the snowbum's site he mentioned something about 120 degree assembly. Is this a rotation standard for reassembling a clutch without replacement?

    I have also read the the spacers are not necessary on the newer clutch assemblies, is this true? I did not install new ones, but I have not reattached the transmission yet so I can always go back in and install them.

    I reattached the flywheel with around 44 foot pounds.

    I assembled the new clutch and torqued the clutch bolts to around 15 foot pounds. By feel it does not seem super tight, but I assume with the spring behind it everything will be fine.

    Have I made any errors of of yet?

    Thanks.

  10. #25
    Administrator 20774's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    San Antonio, TX
    Posts
    12,898
    Quote Originally Posted by agent9 View Post
    I started to re-assemble the clutch. While reading up on the snowbum's site he mentioned something about 120 degree assembly. Is this a rotation standard for reassembling a clutch without replacement?
    If you were reusing old parts, you should have marked them when they came apart so they go back together with the marks aligned...this is for balance purposes. If new parts are used and have a mark on them to show where it is the heaviest, then the three primary pieces should be installed so that the marks are spaced 120 degrees apart. When I did my /7 clutch last year, there were no marks so I just installed them however...it's been fine. Likely parts these days are generally uniformly weighted.

    Quote Originally Posted by agent9 View Post
    I have also read the the spacers are not necessary on the newer clutch assemblies, is this true? I did not install new ones, but I have not reattached the transmission yet so I can always go back in and install them.
    If you reused old parts, you will need the spacers. If you got updated parts (spring, pressure plate, and compression ring), then no spacers.

    Quote Originally Posted by agent9 View Post
    I reattached the flywheel with around 44 foot pounds.
    Matches with Haynes.

    Quote Originally Posted by agent9 View Post
    I assembled the new clutch and torqued the clutch bolts to around 15 foot pounds. By feel it does not seem super tight, but I assume with the spring behind it everything will be fine.
    Haynes says 17 but 15 should be fine. I used blue loctite (I think) on my bolts just to be sure.

    Quote Originally Posted by agent9 View Post
    Have I made any errors of of yet?
    Hard to see from here! Did you get the clutch disk in the proper direction? There is a front and back side...the back side should have the flange around the center that flairs out to help keep any grease from getting on the disk. Also, did you eyeball the clutch disk to be essentially center in assembly before tightening. The tranny input spline has to slide in and there's not much room for error. If the tranny won't slide in, try rotating the tranny input shaft a skoosh to get the splines lined up. You might have to temporarily hook up the clutch cable assembly with the tranny partially in place so as to release the disk so it will center.

    Did you put a tacky grease on the forward side of the spring as well as on the tips of the fingers? These parts slide a bit during clutch actuation. Having grease there helps prevent some of the squeaking.

    I did something a bit anal on my /7 clutch change last year. I noticed that the spring fits inside the well of the flywheel, but it can move up/down/sideways a bit. Thinking about balance, if I just put the spring it it would rest at the bottom of the well. I made a rough measurement of the difference, and folded a piece of duct tape with a tail to prop up the spring a bit as I was assembling and tightening everything down. Eventually I pulled the duct tape. My thinking was that under tension, the spring is going to stay where I installed it. But I could be wrong and it self centers over time. I couldn't be sure, so I played my little game.
    Kurt -- Forum Administrator ---> Resources and Links Thread <---
    '78 R100/7 & '69 R69S & '52 R25/2
    mine-ineye-deatheah-pielayah-jooa-kalayus. oolah-minane-hay-meeriah-kal-oyus-algay-a-thaykin', buddy!

  11. #26
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    48
    Quote Originally Posted by 20774 View Post
    If you were reusing old parts, you should have marked them when they came apart so they go back together with the marks aligned...this is for balance purposes. If new parts are used and have a mark on them to show where it is the heaviest, then the three primary pieces should be installed so that the marks are spaced 120 degrees apart. When I did my /7 clutch last year, there were no marks so I just installed them however...it's been fine. Likely parts these days are generally uniformly weighted.
    Yes, I am using all new parts and did not see any marks, so I am assuming they are balanced.

    Quote Originally Posted by 20774 View Post
    If you reused old parts, you will need the spacers. If you got updated parts (spring, pressure plate, and compression ring), then no spacers.
    good to know, i am replacing everything in there for good measure.

    Quote Originally Posted by 20774 View Post
    Matches with Haynes.Haynes says 17 but 15 should be fine. I used blue loctite (I think) on my bolts just to be sure.
    I am actually going to take the bolts back out and apply some loctite. Snowbum's site says 15 for /5, but I have also seen up to 18 suggested.

    The oil pump cover screws are far less torqued, 88 inch pounds, should I put some loctite on these? I was also planning on putting loctite on the drive shaft bolts when they go back in.

    Quote Originally Posted by 20774 View Post
    Hard to see from here! Did you get the clutch disk in the proper direction? There is a front and back side...the back side should have the flange around the center that flairs out to help keep any grease from getting on the disk.
    I am pretty certain everything is in the correct direction, and flanging around the disk.


    Quote Originally Posted by 20774 View Post
    Also, did you eyeball the clutch disk to be essentially center in assembly before tightening.
    I used a clutch alignment tool from north star airheads


    Quote Originally Posted by 20774 View Post
    The tranny input spline has to slide in and there's not much room for error. If the tranny won't slide in, try rotating the tranny input shaft a skoosh to get the splines lined up. You might have to temporarily hook up the clutch cable assembly with the tranny partially in place so as to release the disk so it will center.
    It came off so easily, I was hoping that it would be equally easy to go back on, but I can see how it could be a little tricky. Might try to tackle this today, after a thorough cleaning of the tranny and throw out etc. Also going to replace the felt.

    [
    Quote Originally Posted by 20774 View Post
    Did you put a tacky grease on the forward side of the spring as well as on the tips of the fingers? These parts slide a bit during clutch actuation. Having grease there helps prevent some of the squeaking.
    yup

    Quote Originally Posted by 20774 View Post
    I did something a bit anal on my /7 clutch change last year. I noticed that the spring fits inside the well of the flywheel, but it can move up/down/sideways a bit. Thinking about balance, if I just put the spring it it would rest at the bottom of the well. I made a rough measurement of the difference, and folded a piece of duct tape with a tail to prop up the spring a bit as I was assembling and tightening everything down. Eventually I pulled the duct tape. My thinking was that under tension, the spring is going to stay where I installed it. But I could be wrong and it self centers over time. I couldn't be sure, so I played my little game.
    Interesting idea. I assume centrifugal force and pressure will keep it centered, was also thinking it might spread out a hair when under full pressure....I do not like introducing foreign objects into there, but I guess tape would be pretty benign. I think I will leave mine as is, it was such a gunky mess when I pulled it all out, I like the idea of it being clean and free of almost anything foreign for at least a little while.

    Thanks again for all the help and answers.

  12. #27
    Administrator 20774's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    San Antonio, TX
    Posts
    12,898
    Re: the oil pump cover screws...I would loctite things that are buried this deep...the last thing I would want is them coming loose.

    Re: the tape...I didn't leave it in there, I just used it to hold the spring in place while I assembled...once torqued, I pulled the tape out.

    On the one hand, there's noting to keep the spring centered...seems like it could drift sideways while being spun...but it can only go as far as the shoulder of the flywheel. The spring has that wide opening where the actual spring fingers are, so there's nothing there to hold it in like a center rod etc. EXCEPT...the face of the pressure plate will push on those fingers when the clutch lever is pulled, thus forcing the clutch pushrod to extend and push the center of the pressure plate. Now maybe the fact that the pressure plate pushes out in sort of a cone-shape, that conical shape will tend to get even pressure around those spring fingers, thus keeping it centered. That's likely what happens...and my initial trick to center the spring was just a waste of time.
    Kurt -- Forum Administrator ---> Resources and Links Thread <---
    '78 R100/7 & '69 R69S & '52 R25/2
    mine-ineye-deatheah-pielayah-jooa-kalayus. oolah-minane-hay-meeriah-kal-oyus-algay-a-thaykin', buddy!

  13. #28
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    48
    I pulled the clutch back out, flywheel back out, and remove the oil pump cover screws and applied some loctite to them. I only have the blue stick, but assume blue is blue with loctite. flywheel and clutch are back in. New step is cleaning up the transmission and inspecting the throw out system.

    here is a before an after of the gross clutch housing:


    and here is the new clutch installed


    hopefully I will find some time to work on it this afternoon.

  14. #29
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    48
    Found some time to dive back in today.

    The transmission cleaned up pretty well. Once again there was a lot of oil gunk mixed with clutch dust (so gross and hard to get out).







    The tranny cover has a bit of corrosion that was more apparent once all the grease and grime was cleaned off.





    It looks almost like a rust, which is strange on an aluminum part (or is the tranny cover steel?)

    I pulled the throwout bearing and assembly.



    The seal rubber seal at the top was shot to hell but the rest looks pretty good. I have a replacement seal and new piece of felt.

    The end of the rod looks like it is in pretty good shape





    here is the assembly


    here are the individual components:


    everything looks pretty good to me. Is there anything else I should check?

    Also cleaned up the lever:



    I have a replacement spring.

    question: What is the nipple on the end for?

    The lever cleaned up pretty well, not like new or anything, but not terrible for something that is 40 years old.



    One more question am I missing part #6 (gasket ring) or is that around the already?



    Ok, heading out to dinner, but hoping to get the tranny back in tomorrow.

    Thanks again for all the great advice.

  15. #30
    Monza Blue 1974 R90/6
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Delaware
    Posts
    427
    Part number 6 is installed already on your part number 5. It fits in the groove in between and acts as a seal. Hard to describe, but I hope you see what I mean when you look at your part number 5.

    The new felt might be hard to install. A bit fiddly.

    Barron

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •