Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 67

Thread: Bringing my R60/5 back to life.

  1. #1
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    48

    Bringing my R60/5 back to life.

    Hello, I am a long time MOA reader, but this is my first post.

    So the back story.

    I purchased my R60/5 about 6 years ago from a couple women in Pasadena. I have wanted a toaster since I was 12, and I love this bike as much now as when I was 12. I have always done all the maintenance on the bike myself. I am no mechanic, but I am mechanically inclined, and always prefer to do a job myself if I can. I did all the regular maintenance, but the clutch was always in need of a replacement, since the day I purchased it. The bike has around 45k miles on it.



    4 years ago I was in a somewhat serious accident on the bike, when I lost control around a corner at night on an unfamiliar street in Los Angeles. My right header ran into a pole, throwing both my legs into the carb area.

    (this was the scene on a later day, my accident was at night)




    Here is my poor girl:


    but, she did fare better then myself:


    I ended up with a pretty serious break of my right leg, as you can see in the picture, and minor fracture of my left tibia (so, it was a wheel chair for me for a couple months). I am fine now, everything healed up nicely.

    While the bike looked sad and miserable in the above picture, she actually was alright. I replaced both fenders, the valve covers (with scratched up ones I already had, need to pick up some pretty ones at some point), and the pipes. I still need to track down a rear tail light assembly, but over all she was not in the worse of shape.

    So after that I did something I swore I would never do. I let her sit. I started her twice in the last 4 years, once to load her into a moving truck to drag her to SF, and once more when I started feeling really guilty about a year and a half ago.

    In my defense, I had a lot going on over the past 4 years, and it always gave me a good reason to not get her back into tip top shape. Insurance lapsed, and registration was suspended, then I moved, and my first place in SF only had parking, no garage, etc, etc, etc. In all honesty I think I was a little afraid to get back on my horse.

    But I feel ready now, and I have a great garage, and really really really miss her.

    here she is about a week ago:


    I charged up the battery and topped off the oil. The battery did not have enough juice to power the starter, so I kicked her for a while, and with the aid of some starting fluid she would turn over and sputter, then die. I think this is a good sign. Next I replaced the gas with new fuel, and swapped out the plugs. Same effect, just some sputter here and there then she died. I knew going there was a very high likelihood I would need to clean and rebuild the carburators.



    here is a picture of what may be one of the many reasons it was not able to fully start:



    I broke them both down, o-rings were shot, there was a lot of varnish build up in every hole etc. I blasted everything with carb cleaner and worked them with a tooth brush, then gave each side a 1 hour bath in chem dip, washed everything with water after.



    and put them back together with the old gaskets / orings / etc.



    Unfortunately the local BMW motorcycle shop does not have many parts in stock for the Bing type 53s, so I am going to have to track down the rebuild kits next week. I am hoping bavarian cycle works here in SF has rebuild kits, but I think it might be a long shot. I also sent Beemer shop in scotts valley an email. If I get no luck from either of them I guess I will be ordering the full kit from Bing (who I called twice last week and never got an answer) or Huck's.

    Next I started draining all the fluids, starting with the final drive:



    WOW. I really hope this is not a sign of things to come. The final drive fluid was thick, and full of sludge. This final drive was actually installed not long before my accident, so I am hoping there was just some nastiness in there already, and that is not a sign of what I am going to find with the rest of the fluids.

    What is the proper process to flush this thing out? Should I just fill it with gear oil, then drain again and replace? Is there something safe to put in there to eat all this away?

    Luckily the drive shaft fluid was clear as can be:


    Transmission fluid was also very clean:


    although here was a good bit of small metal flecks around the drain plug magnet (the streak next to it almost looks like metallic paint)



    Motor oil looked like chocolate syrup, but my valves were off prior to the accident, and I remember it fouling plugs and oil fairly quickly (I hope it is just valves)



    The drain plug for the engine oil was free and clear of any metals


    Yesterday afternoon I left her draining, I figure a good 24 hours of dripping out will not hurt anything:



    I have also replaced the air filter, and plugs. I removed the oil filter, and have a replacement. and new valve cover gaskets, and oil pan gasket (I want to remove the oil pan and inspect / clean a bit).

    I picked up a new battery as well, and new fluids from BMW.

    So hopefully after I get new gaskets / etc for the carbs I will be able to get her started. I was wondering if I should replace the floats too, I rebuilt both carbs about 5 years ago, but am thinking maybe I should just for good measure. Are there any other carb bits I should replace? And how should I set the carbs for a base setting to get her started? Hard to sync without her running.

    Also do you guys suggest anything to clean out that gunk in the final drive?

    Thanks in advance!
    Last edited by agent9; 06-24-2012 at 06:24 PM. Reason: updated image links

  2. #2
    Sir Darby Darryl Cainey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Fenwick, Ontario Canada
    Posts
    2,166
    Quote Originally Posted by agent9 View Post
    Hello, I am a long time MOA reader, but this is my first post.

    Also do you guys suggest anything to clean out that gunk in the final drive?

    Thanks in advance!
    Fill it with varsol, turn, turn, turn, turn it, then drain, repeat till it comes out clean.
    Ambassador BMW MOA Ontario Canada
    President Niagara BMW Riders #298
    Knights of the Roundel #333
    1977 R100RS, (Retired) 1993 R100GS (just getting started)

  3. #3
    Registered User 88bmwjeff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Walnut Creek, CA
    Posts
    2,555
    If you're still having trouble locating carb parts, call Bing to order them.

    http://www.bingcarburetor.com/

    Oh, and welcome to the Bay Area.
    Jeff in W.C.
    1988 R100 RT (the other woman)
    "I got my motorcycle jacket but I'm walking all the time." Joe Strummer

  4. #4
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    48
    Varsol, awesome! Thank you.

    88BmwJeff: Thanks! I have actually been here three years now, love it here. I tried to call bing a couple times last week, maybe I just need to keep trying.

    Does anyone have any advice, or anywhere they can point me to the proper way to set the carbs initially after the rebuild?

    Thanks.

  5. #5
    Administrator 20774's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    San Antonio, TX
    Posts
    13,184
    When you call Bing, buy their handbook...very useful information. It provides initial settings for the carbs.

    Synching the carbs requires:

    - warming them up first on a 20-30 minute ride
    - place a fan in front of the bike to avoid overheating
    - adjust the idle mixture screw individually so that each cylinder runs at max speed. Turn CW until it stumbles; turn CCW until it stumbles...set in the middle
    - idle speed should be set so that each cylinder runs on its own at the same RPM, somewhere probably 500-600. Methods for shorting the cylinders have been discussed numerous times as well as is on Snowbum's website:

    http://bmwmotorcycletech.info/synchcarbs.htm

    - Snowbum also discusses how to set the throttle cable tension in the above article.

    (We'll apologize ahead of time for Snowbum's articles! Lot's of info; sometimes hard to dig it out).

    That's the basics. If you know of other Airheads near you, having them provide some help on this would be the best if you're doing it the first time.
    Kurt -- Forum Administrator ---> Resources and Links Thread <---
    '78 R100/7 & '69 R69S & '52 R25/2
    mine-ineye-deatheah-pielayah-jooa-kalayus. oolah-minane-hay-meeriah-kal-oyus-algay-a-thaykin', buddy!

  6. #6
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    48
    I have synced them before, and have a lot of practice with the weber idf40s on my car, so I am comfortable with getting them synced once the bike is running.

    The manual is definitely in the plan.

    Is there anything else not included in the rebuild kit I should be replacing?

  7. #7
    #4869 DennisDarrow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Sugar Valley, Ga
    Posts
    1,104
    Kurt makes a good suggestion to go ahead and purchase the Bing manual. It may help you put all of those parts back together. It's kinda hard over time to figure out just exactly where and how that little gizmo came apart.

    For me, cleaning that trans and differential is the most important. Actually, I wish you could take them off the bike so you can turn them and move them around to get whatever solvent into all the nooks and crannies.........BUT YOU CANT......so.........back in the old days we did what you need to do with kerosene or diesel fuel........It applies now also.......Fill it up and turn it over and over and over...........Some might even say to ride it but that is overboard......

    FLUSH.....do it again......perhaps 3 or 4 times........Then put in new el cheapo oil and ride it to get the whole think hot.....DRAIN IT.........NOW....new permanent.............

    Proud that you are bringing this back to life......God bless.........Dennis

  8. #8
    Registered User 88bmwjeff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Walnut Creek, CA
    Posts
    2,555
    Quote Originally Posted by agent9 View Post
    88BmwJeff: Thanks! I have actually been here three years now, love it here. I tried to call bing a couple times last week, maybe I just need to keep trying.
    Well, then the welcome is a bit belated. Anyway, you might want to join the Norcal Airheads group, if you haven't already.

    http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/norcal_airheads/
    Jeff in W.C.
    1988 R100 RT (the other woman)
    "I got my motorcycle jacket but I'm walking all the time." Joe Strummer

  9. #9
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    48
    Thanks Jeff, joining socal airheads now.

    I have found varsol seems to be nearly impossible to locate here in california. I did pick up some Gunk MF3 MotorFlush. Smells like a turpentine or petrol, which I found promising for some reason. I put an approximate 50/50 mix of hypoid oil and MotorFlush into the final drive, and spun the rear wheel for 5 minutes or so. I then drained it, and added the same mixture again and repeated. Seems to be flowing clean now. Once I get the bike running I plan on running it for a week or so then do an additive (perhaps more gunk motor flush) flush of the whole system, and replace all the fluids once again.

    I have the carburetors back together, they always seem pretty easy to assembly as long as you do them one at a time. But a good manual is always a good idea. I was planning on grabbing that anyways.

  10. #10
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    48
    full carb rebuild kit and manual from bing came in yesterday. Was able to get the carbs finished, also rebuilt the pet cocks, and got everything together.



    Tried to start it, and she just wasn't catching (I dont think there was enough fuel in the carbs yet). Little tiny bit of starter spray and it fired right up. Starts without a problem now. Really a huge relief. I expected it to smoke like the dickens, but there was next to none. I do see a little on the left pipe when I give it a good rev, but I am hoping this is just burn off.

    Next is the points and valves. I know the vales are definitely off by quite a bit, and the push rods are not centered in the tubes, so I will be fixing all that up hopefully tomorrow, and give a shot at getting the carbs more balanced. Then I am moving on to the clutch before rebuilding the forks.

    Is there a good guide to balancing the carburators using the shoring method?

    I am going to order some new valve covers, try to track down a tail light assembly, and a complete new clutch. I would love to know if there is anything I am missing for the clutch, and if there is a favorite place to order from.

    here is my parts list:
    CLUTCH SPRING 21211250288
    PRESSURE PLATE 21211251801
    HD CLUTCH PLATE 21211236332
    SPACER WASHER (x6) 21210070511
    COMPRESSION RING 21211231666
    COUNTERSUNK HEAD SCREW (x6) 21211231463
    Oil Pump Cover Bolts (x4) 7119913464
    Flywheel bolts (x5) 11220016759
    (short) driveshaft bolts (x4) 26111230414
    clutch carrier bolts (x6) 21211338680
    clutch carrier bolt washers (x6) 21211242377

    A&S is coming in right around $500 for all of this, would love to know if anyone has a suggestion on somewhere else.

    I have already ordered and received all the tools, the rear main seal, and the oil pump seal from Northwoods Airheads.

    If anyone has a /5 tail light assembly or valve covers please give me a shout.

    Thanks.

  11. #11
    Administrator 20774's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    San Antonio, TX
    Posts
    13,184
    Quote Originally Posted by agent9 View Post
    If anyone has a /5 tail light assembly or valve covers please give me a shout.
    Your best bet is to check with some of the used or salvage places...check the Resources and Links thread. Buying/selling of items should be done through the Fleamarket, ebay, etc. Thanks...
    Kurt -- Forum Administrator ---> Resources and Links Thread <---
    '78 R100/7 & '69 R69S & '52 R25/2
    mine-ineye-deatheah-pielayah-jooa-kalayus. oolah-minane-hay-meeriah-kal-oyus-algay-a-thaykin', buddy!

  12. #12
    Administrator 20774's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    San Antonio, TX
    Posts
    13,184
    Snowbum has an article on synching and shorting...if you feel up to reading through it:

    http://bmwmotorcycletech.info/synchcarbs.htm

    Is one of your tools something to block the crankshaft when you remove the flywheel? Plenty of cautions out there to be double sure that the crank doesn't move forward when the flywheel is off...it'll make this job a whole lot tougher if you let it move...
    Kurt -- Forum Administrator ---> Resources and Links Thread <---
    '78 R100/7 & '69 R69S & '52 R25/2
    mine-ineye-deatheah-pielayah-jooa-kalayus. oolah-minane-hay-meeriah-kal-oyus-algay-a-thaykin', buddy!

  13. #13
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    48
    Yes, I have the crankshaft blocking thinggy, this seems like a common problem of not doing this. Am I correct that you block the crankshaft from inside the front cover (where the diode board / points are located). As I understand it you place this on the hex head bolt located in there then lightly reattach the front cover. I have a slight recollection that some people suggest also blocking the starter? or maybe it was the alternator? Is there anything to that?

    Here is my little collection of tools:



    from left to right: rear main seal installer, rear main seal, flywheel holder, clutch adjustment tool (not totally sure what this is used for need to read the instructions that come with it), crankshaft blocking bolt, swing arm tool, clutch alignment tool (also not sure exactly how that works), clutch back out bolts, and finally the oil pump o-ring.

    thanks again.

  14. #14
    Administrator 20774's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    San Antonio, TX
    Posts
    13,184
    Quote Originally Posted by agent9 View Post
    Yes, I have the crankshaft blocking thinggy, this seems like a common problem of not doing this. Am I correct that you block the crankshaft from inside the front cover (where the diode board / points are located). As I understand it you place this on the hex head bolt located in there then lightly reattach the front cover. I have a slight recollection that some people suggest also blocking the starter? or maybe it was the alternator? Is there anything to that?
    Quite a nice collection of "tools" there! Yes, it's blocking the crankshaft which is what the alternator rides on the front of. The points are at the bottom and they run off the camshaft.

    That plastic thingy goes in the front of the rotor retaining bolt and the cover is reattached and snugged against this plastic piece. Snowbum provides some dimensions of how far this needs to stick out. Just about anything can be used. Heck, you could take a 2x4 and rest it against the rotor bolt and tie each end back to the jugs...that would keep the crank from moving, too.
    Kurt -- Forum Administrator ---> Resources and Links Thread <---
    '78 R100/7 & '69 R69S & '52 R25/2
    mine-ineye-deatheah-pielayah-jooa-kalayus. oolah-minane-hay-meeriah-kal-oyus-algay-a-thaykin', buddy!

  15. #15
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    48
    Yay progress. I ordered all my clutch parts from BMW MC SF, and they came in about 3 days, which was great. Started tearing the bike down. This is definitely deeper then I have gone into the bike then ever before (I have replaced the starter, etc, but never had the swing arm etc off). As usual it was easy and logical, I am always impressed with how these bikes were engineered.

    here is the new clutch



    I had a small issue getting the drive shaft bolts off. I did not have the factory box wrench, and the two 10mm 12 point wrenches did not have enough clearance to get in there. I ended up grinding one down a bit, and it got in there without issue, and was really easy to remove once I can get a grip on it.


    (I love how these bikes look stripped down)

    The old bolts are the short type, the new ones I got from BMW are the longer ones, and I believe these medieval looking washers go along with them....am I correct? will I have any issues with these longer bolts along with the locking washers?



    After that I removed the clutch linkage, and neutral indicator wire. The transmission lifted right out, I left the kick starter and leaver attached, even with the carbs still on the bike there was plenty of clearance to get it out of there.

    Its pretty gross, going to be nice to have the opportunity to clean it really well.



    here is just a cool picture with the clutch assembly still in there:



    I removed three of the bolts and placed the back out bolts in their place



    I did notice that the clutch bolts were the hex-head which I believe means that the clutch was replaced at some time in the past, but the compression ring is still the old style. The bike has 45k miles on it, so I am a bit surprised the clutch has ever been replaced. All that said it was a relief that the bolt had been replaced, I was not looking forward to having use an impact driver to get the old flat heads out.

    Here is the clutch removed. As you can see there is a TON of gunk in there. I assume both the rear main seal and the oil pump ring are leaking.



    here is the old and new



    The old clutch plate is measuring about .15" compared, the new one is measuring about .25"

    here is clutch housing with the flywheel remove (I had ro really coax out the fly wheel, I think all the gunk was holding it in place).



    So after about 2 hours of blasting and scrubbing (took two cans of brake cleaner and a good chunk of a can of engine degreaser to get out all the gunk, and its still not 100%).



    much better. I did notice some scoring on the case, its the really shinny are in this photo:



    it is grooved and really smooth, but it was covered with gunk, so if there was some rubbing, I do not think it was with the current clutch parts in there. Is this just part of the manufacturing process?

    So my biggest two questions right now are:
    1) will the longer drive shaft bolts with the lock washers work well / better?
    2) what kind of torque does everything need when putting it back together? My guess based on what was on there is 50lbs on the flywheel bolts, 25lbs on the clutch bolts, and closer to 100lbs on the swing arm bolts. The drive shaft seems like you just tighten them as much as you can with a short wrench.
    3) Should I take any concern with the amount of gunk in the clutch housing? Or should I assume this was in deed caused by either the oil pump or rear main seal, both of which I am replacing.

    thanks again,
    Ezra

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •