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Thread: BMW incurs 3 million dollar penalty

  1. #31
    Registered User 88bmwjeff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunderwood View Post
    All I did point out to the people complaining that BMW isn't making the bike they want is, buy the bike that fits your needs/desires best. If that is BMW, awesome. If not, that's fine too.
    I'm not sure that applies to everyone. There are lemons for everything mass produced regardless of the company. It's very frustrating for those who unfortunately end up with a lemon and are given the run around. Granted that happens with just about every manufacturer out there--not just BMW. It's one thing to have the lemon be a $50 item versus a $15,000, $20,000, or more vehicle. For the $50 item, they usually just give you a new item--problem solved. However for the vehicles, manufacturers prefer to repair them. In some cases, it doesn't seem to work very well. I've heard that car manufactures take "lemons" in states with lemon laws and re-sell them in states without lemon laws. I feel sorry for those in states without lemon laws. So, until there are better and more uniform laws or expectations on how manufacturers deal with lemons, I don't see things changing much.

    Manufacturers are typically as quiet as possible with regards to problems with their vehicles and most do not want to pay out big sums for repairs. Think about Toyota's recent problems. They were very quite initially about the problems with their cars. Honda Civic Hybrid owners are unhappy about the misrepresenation of fuel economy. The class action settlement gets them $200. That's peanuts compared to the increased fuel costs and premium paid for those cars. I'm sure there are many more examples like those. BMW is no different.
    Jeff in W.C.
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  2. #32
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    [QUOTE=gunderwood;751610]Yes, like their cars, their bikes are selling well. That argues that all of the complints in this thread and others about reliability, etc. are wrong....the market values something else more and BMW's increasing sales suggest they are correctly estimating what the market desires.


    BMW has been more successful at marketing their bikes in the last decade than any other brand except maybe H-D. Like H-D they are selling an image, although certainly not the same type of image. Remember the R1200RT intoductory video with the guy riding thru the fabulous fjord country of Norway? A beautiful sexy woman riding with him. And she's not some biker tart. This woman obviously has class. Possibly even owns her own company somewhere. A guy is sitting at home watching this and thinks, "all I have ever ridden is those boring Jap "refrigerators", maybe it's time I stepped up to a BMW."

    So this guys buys a new R12 RT OR any other model for that matter. BMW's marketing was successful. But will this new BMW owner be happy enough with his purchase to become a repeat buyer if he happens to be unlucky enough to have final drive problems, which is not a certainty, but a possibilty. Problems with the fuel strip which is very likely. Plus brake issues that have occured on some models. And poor design like the instrument panel glare problem on R12rt. A problem I have yet to have on any other bike I have owned.

    Or maybe the centerstand bolt shears and he drops the bike when that happens(this actually happened on my rt, though it didn't fall because I had the sidestand down.) Maybe this hypothetical guy decides that riding a "premium" brand is worth putting up with these idiosynchrisies, or maybe he goes back to a refrigerator because he doesn't need the drama.

  3. #33
    Survivor akbeemer's Avatar
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    Refrigerators fail. Compressors go bad, coolant leaks or the the water line to the ice maker breaks and floods the floor.
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  4. #34
    Registered User greenwald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AKBeemer View Post
    Refrigerators fail. Compressors go bad, coolant leaks or the the water line to the ice maker breaks and floods the floor.
    True.

    But a lot of BMW owners also own small refrigerators - it's where they keep the Kool-Aid.
    Kevin Greenwald - Touring Tips Editor
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  5. #35
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    I've bought 3 Beemers, brand-new...never a regret. Are they perfect? No...but consider the alternative. First one, a '75 R60/6 I still have. The timing was set at the factory in Germany, and I've replaced the points once, after some 100,000 + miles. The front brake light switch never worked...I don't care. My 2003 CLC had 86,000 miles on it when it was rear-ended and totaled. It did have a failure at the rear drive seal. I had been watching for this as a known glitch. Yes, it had all of the regular maintenance. Dealer replaced the drive shaft input seal to the rear drive in addition to the big seal and gave me a 2 year, 24,000 mile warranty on the rear drive. Fair enough. R1200 RT has had a few switches replaced because of intermittent cruise control operation. I lost some time on the bike while it sat at the dealer, but it was eventually fixed right. I don't care. I ride every day in traffic, and these beemers have always been responsive and good machines that have proved to be tough over the long run.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by AKBeemer View Post
    Refrigerators fail. Compressors go bad, coolant leaks or the the water line to the ice maker breaks and floods the floor.
    I have never had a refrigeraor fail (I'm 64) and I have always installed my icemakers properly so the line doesn't fail. Thats more than I can say for certain manufacturers.
    '03 R1150R, '03 F650GS, '97DR200SE,'78 Honda CT-90, '77Honda CT-90

  7. #37
    Survivor akbeemer's Avatar
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    Had a new Maytag refer fail less than a month after we bought it. Spoiled a couple hundred dollars worth of food and our large container of kool-aide got warm.cc
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  8. #38
    Registered User Blacque Jacque Shellacque's Avatar
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    Only a $3 million dollar fine? Chump change for BMW. Lots of chumps show up everyday in the show rooms to reimburse the loss!

  9. #39
    God? What god? roborider's Avatar
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    Wait a minute. I'm a chump for buying an R12RT that I'm completely pleased with?
    Rob C. , Raleigh, NC
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  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoboRider View Post
    Wait a minute. I'm a chump for buying an R12RT that I'm completely pleased with?
    I'd say he was out of line and very wrong! I'm another very happy owner.
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  11. #41
    lloving
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    It takes a chump.......etc


  12. #42
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    If the Asians ever figure out how to make cars that drive like the Germans they will outsell them. Right now all they've got going for them is reliability which is of no interest whatever to BMW or Mercedes owners. Many are leased and few sales of new ones get kept beyond an extended warranty- owners have enough green to trade up and they do. The warranties are quite good and need to be given the low quality of many of the outsourced parts and the inadequate development work done.

    I have no idea how BMW motorcycles get designed or engineered but a TV show a couple nights ago on BMW car design featured a whole bunch of folks none of whom seemed well connected to reality but rather firmly grounded in an odd company culture.
    After listening to their over educated designers talking a lot of of silliness, it was pretty obvious how they manage to do "brilliant" things like I-Drive and engine programming that doesn't work in the real world.

    One thing you need to remember about euro countries is that they have lots of laws and regulations but little to no serious enforcement compared to the US. Even in US firms that are used to federal requirements, lapses occur and only laws with criminal penalties for execs get any serious notice in the head office - think the Food and Drug Act or Sarbanes/Oxley but almost nothing else- most laws have only monetary penalties for the firm and that is no deterrent at all.

    Hardly surprising BMW is slow on the mandatory reporting stuff or just ignores it. A lot of US firms go to the other extreme and bury govt agencies in reports of everything even remotely related to a requirement, effectively hiding the significant stuff in the mass of info until it becomes so common it can't be ignored by whatever agency is getting the data. Reporting it doesn't mean anyone that matters is looking at it either at the firm or the gov't.

  13. #43
    Registered User Blacque Jacque Shellacque's Avatar
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    When the ABS unit in my r1150rs failed, my friendly BMW dealer offered to repair it for only a mere $4000. This was only a month after my insurance company paid $5600 in repairs for a front caliper, and a set of wheels. (bent from running over a driveshaft lying in the road) I still like the bike, and I admit, I am a chump. I like the product, not the company. Stopped drinking the cool aid long ago.

  14. #44
    Registered User f14rio's Avatar
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    its about elitism*

    volvos, mercedes & bmw's are more expensive and less reliable than jap crap which is not news.
    if hundai made bikes they would be fine but i wouldn't buy one and niether would most folks here.
    practical is for practical peopple who don't care about being noticed, which i am not.
    not really much difference between bmw and harley riders. we're all about image and status.

    You may be an elitist if you love Brokeback Mountain, but think that John Wayne movies are jingoistic expressions of outdated American machismo.




    * Elitism is the belief or attitude that some individuals, who form an elite — a select group of people with intellect, wealth, specialized training or experience, or other distinctive attributes — are those whose views on a matter are to be taken the most seriously or carry the most weight; whose views and/or actions are most likely to be constructive to society as a whole; or whose extraordinary skills, abilities or wisdom render them especially fit to govern.[1]

    Alternatively, the term elitism may be used to describe a situation in which power is concentrated in the hands of a limited number of people. Those opposed to elitism are considered supporters of anti-elitism, egalitarianism, populism or the political theory of pluralism. Elite theory is the sociological or political science analysis of elite influence in society - elite theorists regard pluralism as a utopian ideal.

    Elitism may also refer to situations in which an individual assumes special privileges and responsibilities in the hope that this arrangement will benefit humanity or themselves. At times, elitism is closely related to social class and what sociologists call social stratification. Members of the upper classes are sometimes known as the social elite. The term elitism is also sometimes used to denote situations in which a group of people claiming to possess high abilities or simply an in-group or cadre grant themselves extra privileges at the expense of others. This form of elitism may be described as discrimination.
    Last edited by f14rio; 02-18-2012 at 03:54 PM.
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  15. #45
    Registered User lkchris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by f14rio View Post
    * Elitism is the belief or attitude that some individuals, who form an elite ...

    Alternatively, the term elitism may be used to describe a situation ...

    Elitism may also refer to situations ...
    Oh get over it.

    "Elitism" is a charge leveled by someone who's intimidated by somebody else.
    Kent Christensen
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