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Thread: BMW incurs 3 million dollar penalty

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by WILDPIG View Post
    71243 -- no need to reply nor any need from the others in the peanut gallery -- you asked a question -- i answered it. this aint gonna turn into a lets bash wildpig blog..... anyone slingin mud -- gonna get it slung right back --fair notice. disgusted -- yes 3 failed rotors 2 r & r brake lines workin on the 4th battery lets see what else oh yea 2 failed ews on the side o the road of course, a few other odds n ends.... oh yea -- cracked lens-- they called it a rock hit -- i think otherwise and a few more odds n ends did i mention fork seals? now bear in mind i had to literally BUILD A CASE AN THREATEN LAW SUIT BEFORE BMW WOULD HONOR THE WARRANTY.......... i really didnt the small stuff that went wrong -- and btw -- ZERO REBUSEMENT FOR OVER 1000 BUX OUTTA MY POCKET.................... pissed -- yea i'd say so... maybe yall ride the bulletproof bmw's -- i would settle for mine merely --- being reliable.
    Ok, no bashing as i don't play that game either. A question if I may? Why not just throw in the towel,sell it...and move on. I am sorry if you have had such a bad experience. However carrying the [hate] & spouting it here won't make the motorcycle any better. Hoping you find a ride you like & trust,..and enjoy it for years & years....Ron.

  2. #17
    Registered User lkchris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 39520 View Post
    Reads to me like BMW is being fined for doing incomplete paperwork with the federal bureaucracy, not for safety defects.
    That's exactly the case.

    How long do YOU think they should wait before reporting a safety problem?

    The rule is clear and in black and white. Fail to comply, pay a fine.

    Actually, maybe it's a gray area. Then, err on the side of conservatism--again, this is safety. Err on the side of denial, pay a fine.

    Your representatives passed laws to protect your safety and it's hard to see much wrong with that. In any event, don't hold your breath waiting for their repeal. That wouldn't be safe.
    Kent Christensen
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    '12 R1200RT, '02 R1100S, '84 R80G/S

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by brewmeister View Post
    Sounds like you need a harley so we can hear you coming!
    Didn't you catch the "springer" comment in his post??
    Kurt -- Forum Administrator ---> Resources and Links Thread <---
    '78 R100/7 & '69 R69S & '52 R25/2
    mine-ineye-deatheah-pielayah-jooa-kalayus. oolah-minane-hay-meeriah-kal-oyus-algay-a-thaykin', buddy!

  4. #19
    God? What god? roborider's Avatar
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    It's a model of Harley. Google it and you'll see them.

    What WildPig really needs is a lesson in writing. Man, those posts are hard to read with all the abbreviations, crappy spelling, punctuation, etc.
    Rob C. , Raleigh, NC
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  5. #20
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    Wildpig,

    Post a pic of your 1200R..if ya want to sell it?..maybe we can come to terms?
    Wherea'bouts do you live?

  6. #21
    Administrator 20774's Avatar
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    71234 -

    How about some smilies on your post?? Remember, no buying or selling directly through the forum. Just a friendly reminder, eh!
    Kurt -- Forum Administrator ---> Resources and Links Thread <---
    '78 R100/7 & '69 R69S & '52 R25/2
    mine-ineye-deatheah-pielayah-jooa-kalayus. oolah-minane-hay-meeriah-kal-oyus-algay-a-thaykin', buddy!

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenwald View Post
    Sadly, financial punishment seems to be the only way to get BMW to sit up and take notice of disgruntled customers.

    There are many who are rightfully frustrated by BMW's ambivilence towards issues with final drives, fuel strips, ESA components, etc.
    Simple solution to financially punish BMW, stop buying them.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by 20774 View Post
    71234 -

    How about some smilies on your post?? Remember, no buying or selling directly through the forum. Just a friendly reminder, eh!
    Ooops!.. I totally forgot, sorry & thanks,..............

  9. #24
    Registered User greenwald's Avatar
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by gunderwood View Post
    Simple solution to financially punish BMW, stop buying them.
    Problem with that is that most of us are here because we like the BMW brand.

    80% of my R1200RT is an awesome motorcycle.

    The 20% that BMW 'over-engineered' things (I believe the cliche "Too smart for your britches!" might apply here), i.e. the FD, fuel strips, ESA - not rocket science to fix those issues.

    Stubborn Germans.
    Last edited by Greenwald; 02-16-2012 at 02:15 PM.
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  10. #25
    God? What god? roborider's Avatar
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    My BMWs have been rock solid (as my Honda's, Yamahas have been also). But assuming the woes Wildpig has suffered (from his other posts) are correct, he's had a bad experience for certain.
    Rob C. , Raleigh, NC
    '05 R12RT, R90/6
    2007 CBR600RR & 09 V-Star
    Suzuki DR 350

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenwald View Post
    Problem with that is that most of us are here because we like the BMW brand.
    On that we are very much in agreement.

    As long as the BMW brand builds motorcycles that I feel meet my needs and desires better than any other brand, I will continue to buy them. When they don't, I'll buy something else. For example, I was seriously considering purchasing the new 650 Serato until I checked one out. I was hoping BMW was going to make a more serious offroader than they did for the "Dakar reborn." Therefore, it's higly unlikely I will buy one. If enough people agree, they'll have to reassess their product. Please note that reassess doesn't mean agree with me and make a better offroad 650...it might mean making none at all. Just as it's my choice to purchase it or not, it's their choice to make one or not.

    I used the word "punish" only because it was what you used. Personally, I'm not out to punish anyone for making a product I don't like; I look at it from the other end. I reward those who create the best product for me and in aggregate we determine the direction of products by making them successful or not. More specifically to the question at hand...

    If a company makes changes in their product line, even if that results in a "lower quality product," and everyone still buys it, why change back? Clearly the market valued whatever the change was over "quality."

  12. #27
    Registered User greenwald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunderwood View Post
    On that we are very much in agreement.

    As long as the BMW brand builds motorcycles that I feel meet my needs and desires better than any other brand, I will continue to buy them. When they don't, I'll buy something else. For example, I was seriously considering purchasing the new 650 Serato until I checked one out. I was hoping BMW was going to make a more serious offroader than they did for the "Dakar reborn." Therefore, it's higly unlikely I will buy one. If enough people agree, they'll have to reassess their product. Please note that reassess doesn't mean agree with me and make a better offroad 650...it might mean making none at all. Just as it's my choice to purchase it or not, it's their choice to make one or not.

    I used the word "punish" only because it was what you used. Personally, I'm not out to punish anyone for making a product I don't like; I look at it from the other end. I reward those who create the best product for me and in aggregate we determine the direction of products by making them successful or not. More specifically to the question at hand...

    If a company makes changes in their product line, even if that results in a "lower quality product," and everyone still buys it, why change back? Clearly the market valued whatever the change was over "quality."
    Astute observations. We should all approach consumerism with such discipline.

    I used the term 'punish' in the legal sense of "monetary damages as a consequence of a corporation's actions or inactions, as they apply to consumer safety."

    Perhaps I should have used a less aggressive term.
    Kevin Greenwald - Touring Tips Editor
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  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunderwood View Post
    Simple solution to financially punish BMW, stop buying them.
    Hilarious!

    Just this week Lexus is announced as the "most reliable" luxury car in USA.

    Of course they were outsold by BMW (and Mercedes) in 2011.

    Possibly many bike owners aren't aware of BMW car reliability. Did you know, for example, that most BMW mechanics recommend for recent model cars complete replacement of cooling system components every 60K miles? That's radiator, water pump, thermostat (electronic) and overflow tank. This is not published as scheduled maintenance but it is obviously good preventive maintenance--5 seconds freeway running with a cooling system failure = a warped 6 cyl engine cylinder head. Would you call this a reliable car?

    Now, it should be obvious that in comparison to a BMW car a Lexus is simply a refrigerator and not very interesting.

    Yet, somehow BMW motorcycle riders--at least many posting here--think they should be sold "refrigerators" at their BMW motorcycle dealer. No, "refrigerator" motorcycles are sold elsewhere if at all.

    Like the cars, BMW motorcycles are selling well, thank you. Loss of the "refrigerator" market isn't seen as much of a problem. Again: in 2011 S1000RR was top selling BMW bike--NOT a refrigerator and surely that's nowhere in the radar of those buying them.

    Your head will stop hurting when you stop beating it against the wall.
    Kent Christensen
    21482
    '12 R1200RT, '02 R1100S, '84 R80G/S

  14. #29
    Registered User Bohan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenwald View Post
    Cheering any financial punishment of BMW seems counterproductive to a group of individuals who, by their very membership in this club, choose to champion this brand of motorcycle as their own.

    Sadly, financial punishment seems to be the only way to get BMW to sit up and take notice of disgruntled customers.

    There are many who are rightfully frustrated by BMW's ambivilence towards issues with final drives, fuel strips, ESA components, etc.

    While I wish to see BMW flourish as a motorcycle brand here in the USA, I'm sure as a corporation, it watches its bottom line carefully and will eventually need to reassess its approach to these fines and the pending NHTSA investigation into their post-2004 motorcycle line final drives.

    Let's hope that rather than stockpiling funds to settle small-to-medium sized penalties levied against them, they invest it in a less complex and more reliable FD, fuel gauge and other tweaking to our beloved mounts.
    Well said, Mr. Greenwald.

    I guess some of us feel frustrated mainly because we love the marque for several reasons and feel let down by the perceived disregard and arrogance displayed by BMW NA. All we want is a product we can be proud to own  and typically pay high $$$ for it.
    2004 BMW R1150RT

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by lkchris View Post
    Hilarious!

    Just this week Lexus is announced as the "most reliable" luxury car in USA.

    Of course they were outsold by BMW (and Mercedes) in 2011.

    Possibly many bike owners aren't aware of BMW car reliability. Did you know, for example, that most BMW mechanics recommend for recent model cars complete replacement of cooling system components every 60K miles? That's radiator, water pump, thermostat (electronic) and overflow tank. This is not published as scheduled maintenance but it is obviously good preventive maintenance--5 seconds freeway running with a cooling system failure = a warped 6 cyl engine cylinder head. Would you call this a reliable car?

    Now, it should be obvious that in comparison to a BMW car a Lexus is simply a refrigerator and not very interesting.

    Yet, somehow BMW motorcycle riders--at least many posting here--think they should be sold "refrigerators" at their BMW motorcycle dealer. No, "refrigerator" motorcycles are sold elsewhere if at all.

    Like the cars, BMW motorcycles are selling well, thank you. Loss of the "refrigerator" market isn't seen as much of a problem. Again: in 2011 S1000RR was top selling BMW bike--NOT a refrigerator and surely that's nowhere in the radar of those buying them.

    Your head will stop hurting when you stop beating it against the wall.
    Yes, like their cars, their bikes are selling well. That argues that all of the complints in this thread and others about reliability, etc. are wrong....the market values something else more and BMW's increasing sales suggest they are correctly estimating what the market desires.

    If you re-read what I actually wrote, you will notice that I did not argue that BMW should make "refrigerators." FYI: I just bought my second BMW, which is a HP2 Sport...kind of the antithesis of a "refrigerator."

    All I did point out to the people complaining that BMW isn't making the bike they want is, buy the bike that fits your needs/desires best. If that is BMW, awesome. If not, that's fine too. Until the day I own 51% of BMW Motorrad, they will likely never make the perfect gunderwood BWM. We all have to choose between a variety of imperfect options. Faster, better, or cheaper, choose two.

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