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Thread: Does BMW need a water cooled boxer?

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    Registered User xp8103's Avatar
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    Does BMW need a water cooled boxer?

    So the 1200 has reached performance limited by cooling, much as Porsche did. Question. Does it need more HP? Are we drag racing them? If so, perhaps the boxer isn't for you, may I suggest something in a WATER COOLED INLINE 4? Does the GSA need more HP? Is there a ravine that is just too much for the current GS that we're just itching to traverse that requires more of it than the current 1200 puts out?

    How about instead of more HP for HP sake we concentrate on ride-ability, durability, MPG?

    Just curious.
    Nik #140220 - '88 K75C | '96 R1100RS | '77 R100RS | '06 DL650
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    rabid reader dbrick's Avatar
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    There's more than just cooling: bikes will also need to meet upcoming EU requirements regarding emissions and noise. Liquid cooling makes this possible while continuing to increase power...after all, BMW does want to keep selling bikes.
    David Brick
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    2007 R1200R

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    Still Wondering mika's Avatar
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    HP was not the reason for the new boxer but will be a byproduct of the new design. The design adds an estimated 50cc, a different head design, better breathing presumably and some other items other posters will no doubt sight.

    Ride-ability: One of the things better breathing will give the boxer will be more torque. Spread that around the rpm range and it will improve useable torque and ride-ability. Torque and HP are mathematically related so you improve one you get more of the other.

    Durability: Yes we all want that. Ranting about the durability of a bike that won't hit show room floors until 2013 seems premature to me. The new design in engine and drive train will not have real world testing data from rider/owners 2014.

    I am willing to reserve judgement until a latter date.
    Pass the mustard and UP THE REVOLUTION!

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    All-round Motorcyclist MarkM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xp8103 View Post
    So the 1200 has reached performance limited by cooling, much as Porsche did. Question. Does it need more HP? Are we drag racing them? If so, perhaps the boxer isn't for you, may I suggest something in a WATER COOLED INLINE 4? Does the GSA need more HP? Is there a ravine that is just too much for the current GS that we're just itching to traverse that requires more of it than the current 1200 puts out?

    How about instead of more HP for HP sake we concentrate on ride-ability, durability, MPG?

    Just curious.
    I think liquid-cooling is first and foremost to meet emissions regulations. Is there any such thing as too much HP?
    Mark M, St. Louis, '95 R1100RS, '01 Super Sherpa
    There are two roads in life; the twisty one is vastly more fun.

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    Registered User greenwald's Avatar
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    Cool

    Sadly, all this a moot point unless BMW perfects a bullet-proof Final Drive.
    Kevin Greenwald - Touring Tips Editor
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    Still Wondering mika's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenwald View Post
    Sadly, all this a moot point unless BMW perfects a bullet-proof Final Drive.
    And sadly you and others will continue to grouse about the poor quality of a new final drive unit that has not even hit the market yet.
    Pass the mustard and UP THE REVOLUTION!

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    All-round Motorcyclist MarkM's Avatar
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    And sadly I can't afford a new bike. But on the bright side, I'd love to pick up someone's R1200GS now that it's about to become an old model.
    Mark M, St. Louis, '95 R1100RS, '01 Super Sherpa
    There are two roads in life; the twisty one is vastly more fun.

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    not so retired henzilla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkM View Post
    And sadly I can't afford a new bike. But on the bright side, I'd love to pick up someone's R1200GS now that it's about to become and old model.
    My '09 has been an "old" model for three model years now
    Steve Henson
    SABMWRA MOA Club#62's Flat Fixer/ current forum moderator
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    04 1150RS bigsur52's Avatar
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    Whew. This thread has turned into a cat fight. Maybe it should have been posted "somewhere else" on this site?
    "all things in moderation - including moderation"

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    Registered User f14rio's Avatar
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    mid winter blues

    Quote Originally Posted by bigsur52 View Post
    Whew. This thread has turned into a cat fight. Maybe it should have been posted "somewhere else" on this site?


    "Enemy fighters at 2 o'clock!...Roger, What should i do until then?"

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    Registered User greenwald's Avatar
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    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Mika View Post
    And sadly you and others will continue to grouse about the poor quality of a new final drive unit that has not even hit the market yet.
    What 'new' final drive unit?

    Please enlighten us 'grousers.'
    Kevin Greenwald - Touring Tips Editor
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    Registered User lmo1131's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbrick View Post
    bikes will also need to meet upcoming EU requirements regarding emissions and noise.
    +1

    Water cooling allows you to control the temperature of the engine much better and that in turn permits more efficient/effective engine designs. Particularly, it allows the engineers to lean out the fuel at emissions testing RPMs. For example, look at the torque hole the F800s have at ~4k. To meet emissions nearly every modern engine has that "feature" one way or another...some are obvious, some are not.

  14. #14
    Still Wondering mika's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenwald View Post
    What 'new' final drive unit?

    Please enlighten us 'grousers.'
    The one that will come with the R1250GS. My initial response to the OP used the WasserBoxer as a basis. We know nothing about it yet.

    For my tastes I find final drive rants as redundant and boring. I took your 'bullet proof' comment as the launching pad for yet another thread to go down that route. my experience in reading threads is no matter what BMW would do to make a final drive bullet prove the would come up at least 1 mile short of the 'acceptable' by that standard.

    I apologize for my knee jerk response to your post. I will exit the thread now.
    Pass the mustard and UP THE REVOLUTION!

    St. Paul Pioneer Press , Minneapolis Star Tribune

  15. #15
    Registered User xp8103's Avatar
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    Ah.... Of course.... I forgot about emissions. Because as we all know, it's about mpg and reducing fossil fuel use until it's about emissions, then it's about emissions, mpg be damned. This rant of course belongs more on the Diesel Truck Registry website than here but the concept is the same.
    Nik #140220 - '88 K75C | '96 R1100RS | '77 R100RS | '06 DL650
    '01 525iT (oOO=00=OOo)

    Helmets don't save lives but loud pipes do?

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