Tier 1 Gasoline

[Mr. Frank]

We can thank ethanol for some of those fuel system problems.

[pipestone]

Its all fun to talk about I guess....but what are you really going to do about it...

...like so many issues in our world today.."O"

This will be just like when they took the lead away..I had to buy lead substitute and add it to my old Chevy's to keep them happy and around a few more years.

oh well...

We're all blessed people in this country to be able to have it available and at a price that most of us can somewhat afford...at least for now.

Hopefully we will all get another riding season in this year

[Mr. Frank]

There's hope. Congress has dropped the ethanol subsidy.

[kantuckid]

and the price of gas went up, then down

[osbornk]

There's hope. Congress has dropped the ethanol subsidy.

They dropped the subsidy but kept the mandate that it had to be added to gasoline. It doesn't help us with the problem. It only stops a stupid government tax break and makes the actual users of the corn squeezins pay for it.

[bikerfish1100]

They dropped the subsidy but kept the mandate that it had to be added to gasoline. It doesn't help us with the problem. It only stops a stupid government tax break and makes the actual users of the corn squeezins pay for it.

those "ultimate users" would be we the people. we were already paying for it as a tax subsidy, albeit indirectly and in a fashion that we did not see on a daily basis. now we get the opportunity to pay for it a drip at a time.
at least no longer subsidizing the mega-corporations directly feels a bit better.

yes, next move is to get the ethanol mandate gone.

[Mr. Frank]

Last week I was able to fill up with ethanol free premium gas for the first time in years. I've put 250 miles on that tank, and I can't believe how well the bike runs. I may be kidding myself, but it seems to run smoother and pull better when passing on a two lane.

[kantuckid]

I just bought the wally world/Murphy's gas tonite & their pump sticker says 10% "or less" ethanol for cleaner air...

[GIZMO]

Interesting and helpful read on fuel additives and ethanol
http://www.fuel-testers.com/is_gas_a..._e10_list.html

It is particularly interesting to read that some (not all) products contain at least some alcohol which can only add to the effects and problems associated with ethanol. A couple products that are often touted on various forums that contain alcohol are Sea Foam & Heet.

[ANDYVH]

Yeah, I've read that "10% ethanol for cleaner air" marketing crap on many gas pumps.

Hmmm,....just for instance, lets take 100,000 cars, running on 10% ethanol blended fuel versus non-ethanol fuel, using 20 gallons of fuel per 490 miles. Every car is getting, approx 4% worse fuel mileage per tank with ethanol fuel than non-ethanol fuel. So the same cars with non-ethanol gas would go 510 miles on the same 20 gallons of fuel.

So for those 100,000 cars, they'd need to use another .8 gallon per car to hit the same 510 miles. That's just another 80,000 gallons of fuel used for the same miles. Hmm, wonder how much energy is used to bring that additional 80,000 gallons of 10% Ethanol fuel to the end user? Cleaner air is the product? I doubt it when an additional 20 diesel tanker truck loads are needed to deliver those 80,000 gallons to the end users.

Now multiply that times the FAR more than 100,000 cars on the road and I don't buy the "cleaner air" one bit. Cleaner air is ONLY based on the result of burning those gallons of fuel in an engine. It has nothing to do with how those gallons of fuel are made available to the end user.

[Ken F]

Andy, where did you get the 4% less mileage using ethanol?

My Ford F150, two Audi's and the R1100 all got 10% less....

Just curious.

Ken

[ANDYVH]

I was being "civil" in my rough estimation. My point was to realistically consider what is the result of mandated 10% ethanol blended fuel. It's certainly not "cleaner air" as the marketers would like us to believe, because we have to use more of it to go the same distance. If we are using more of it, that being the 90% of the mix which is gasoline, that means there is more of it being hauled to the gas stations. The only way that it gets there is by diesel truck.

Sure, many cars these days are getting better overall gas mileage, than say ten years ago. But there are still a lot of vehicles on the road not of that group. And since the processing and delivery system of ethanol blended fuels is the same as for non-blended fuel, using more of it to produce the equal miles is simply not productive. I agree to the cleaner air aspect because cars these days run FAR cleaner than they used to. Newer cars with better emission systems produce much less air pollution than they used to, but the fuel itself, straight gas or 10% blended has little to do with that in my opnion.

[Ken F]

We are in total agreement Andy, I just wondered if the 4% was a published figure or not.

Thanks,
Ken

[bobinthemtns]

It would take a long time to do this topic justice.. but I'm at work, so a quick and fast will have to do:

ANDYVH- ethanol blended fuels' exhaust is much cleaner than un-oxygenated fuels. Much cleaner. Even if you consider the drop in fuel economy, it's still not even close.

For example, I was involved in some automotive emissions testing where we were testing alcohols mixed into gas, in 2- and 4-stroke motorcycles, we saw a 96% decrease in carbon monoxide.. yes, 96%. Unburned hydrocarbons were lowered between 30-60% depending on the machine... There were massive reductions in air pollution across the board.

Regarding the decrease in mileage- ethanol has 76K btu/gal and gasoline has 113K btu/gal- so on a strictly energy basis, ethanol blended gasoline (@10%) will have around 109K btu/gallon-- just under a 4% loss. But in lots of the testing we did (using motorcycles) at a 10% blend we were able to increase gas mileage.

The reason (we surmised) is that while gas has more btu's, not ALL the gas combusts- but by adding an oxygenate we increased the combustion efficiency and were able raise fuel economy while using a lower-powered fuel.... after about 10% we saw drops in fuel economy that would correspond linearly with the btu levels of the fuel...

So.. long story short, ethanol is a good fuel. While making it from corn is not the best way to make it... (not even close, for about 100 reasons...) But ethanol is a good fuel.

Okay... flame on

[marchyman]

So.. long story short, ethanol is a good fuel. While making it from corn is not the best way to make it... (not even close, for about 100 reasons...) But ethanol is a good fuel.

Okay... flame on

But.... but... but... that isn't what I read on the internet by some guy who says he has lots of bikes.