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Thread: Tier 1 Gasoline

  1. #16
    Registered User ANDYVH's Avatar
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    And just because it has a sticker on the pump saying "may contain up to 10% Ethanol" don't assume ANY accuracy on that statement as far as the station operator is concerned. I have read reports of fuel in tanks being checked for Ethanol and finding 15% and higher at pumps labelled as 10%. Better to avoid all Ethanol when possible, especilly if your bike will sit idle for any length of time.

    If you are buying fuel and intending to use up that tank of fuel within two weeks (depending on where you are in the country) then other than lower fuel mileage using Ethanol is no big deal. But if your bike sits for weeks unridden I would not allow any Ethanol blended fuel to sit in the bike.
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  2. #17
    Registered User 36654's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ANDYVH View Post
    And just because it has a sticker on the pump saying "may contain up to 10% Ethanol" don't assume ANY accuracy on that statement as far as the station operator is concerned. I have read reports of fuel in tanks being checked for Ethanol and finding 15% and higher at pumps labelled as 10%. Better to avoid all Ethanol when possible, especilly if your bike will sit idle for any length of time.

    If you are buying fuel and intending to use up that tank of fuel within two weeks (depending on where you are in the country) then other than lower fuel mileage using Ethanol is no big deal. But if your bike sits for weeks unridden I would not allow any Ethanol blended fuel to sit in the bike.
    Andy,

    Assuming you did get some 15% ethanol gasoline blend......that would only be a 4.75% reduction in mileage from 100% gasoline. On my 42MPG R11RS, that's a loss of 2MPG. I gave up more MPG when I bypassed the CAT plug.

    Ethanol blends will reduce energy content, but the reductions are small.
    Cave contents: 99 R11RS, 2013 Toyota Tacoma, 03 Simplicity Legacy, 97 Stihl FS75, Dewalt DW625 & DW744

  3. #18
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    ethanol

    In Wisconsin, about 6 months ago, some of the stations started advertising no ethanol premium gas. The Kwik Trip stations sell it as recreation fuel, at 91 octane. The other stations sell it at 93 octane. With 7 stations in town, all of them are within a penny in price for regular gas. The kwik Trip is about a dime cheaper for the no ethanol. Up here the Kwik Trip and Shell are advertised as Top Tier gas. Last Labor Day I rode to Dallas TX. on my 85, R80RT. Aways into Illinois I needed to fill up. About 10 miles away the bike wouldn't rev past 5 grand and idle at all. Another fill up and not much improvement. Just as I crossed into Missouri, I needed gas again. Non of the gas at this station had ethanol in it . About 5 miles from the station the bike ran better. When I stop for the night, it would idle on it's own. In the morning it ran as if nothing had been wrong the day before. My guess is I ended up with more ethanol than the bike could burn at the first station. The second station didn't dilute the first tankfull enough. If the bike had fuel injection, the antiknock sensors would have changed the spark advance enough that it would have ran better. I set the carbs on no ethanol gas. While on the trip I could hear the engine back fire into the pipes on deceleration, not loud, just a bit. When I returned home and started using the no ethanol gas again, the backfiring stopped. Before I take another long trip I will reset the carbs using ethanol gas at 87 octane. frank coleman

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by franko View Post
    About 10 miles away the bike wouldn't rev past 5 grand and idle at all.
    It sounds as if you got some bad gas.. How would ethanol keep you from not reving past 5K rpm's?

  5. #20
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    bad gas

    Bob I only have my experiences to go by. I have found that with gas that has water in it, it will settle in the fuel bowl and not dissipate. It will get to the point that the motor will not run if enough water gets in it. My thoughts being that the main jets draw off the lower part of the fuel bowl,and the idle circuit and low speed running draw off the surface area of what is the fuel bowl. The poor high speed running could be from water in the bottom of the bowl, but it also would not idle and accelerated poorly. The water has never dissipated itself. I did not use HEET or another product in it, but the bike improved on it's own. It is just how I figured things to be and I could be wrong, but I will keep reading and learning more. frank coleman

  6. #21
    Dale Rudolph
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    I live in a moderate size city, it has been years since I have seen a gas truck that
    said Chevron or Shell or any major brand on the side of the truck. I wonder sometimes if the same truck goes from one station to another regardless of what
    brand the station is selling. On a brighter note, it's nice to see that the United States now has so much oil that we are exporting it. This was in the business
    section of the paper a few weeks ago.

  7. #22
    Old man in the mountains osbornk's Avatar
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    Ethanol gas doesn't store well and as a result, the ethanol is blended with gas when it is loaded into the tanker for delivery. The mixture varies from one load to another. It has been said around here that they have found as much as 30% ethanol at times. When the vehicle I am using runs "funny", I don't do anything until I have run another tank of fuel through it.
    'You can say what you want about the South, but I almost never hear of anyone wanting to retire to the North.

  8. #23
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    Had to google that notion-seems we export almost 2million barrels to our buddies & of course we bring in lots. Most Pemex gas in Mexico has no ethanol yet but they are playing with doing it @ a 3% rate in the future. Bike runs great there on the 87 low grade.

  9. #24
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    Non Ethanol Premium . . . .

    Paid $4.30/gal for non ethanol premium for my R100RT.
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  10. #25
    Superkraut typ181r90's Avatar
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    I've posted this on a few threads but I'll say it again, if you believe that one brand of gas is better than another you are fooling yourself.

    I currently work at a blending terminal and have previously worked at a pipeline. On the pipeline end, we'd get BP, Shell, Citgo, etc. etc. and they'd all go into the same tanks on top of each other (in the industry this is called fungibility)and get pumped out to various terminals across the United States. At the terminals they'd go right onto trucks and to different gas stations, they weren't reblended or given any additives based on brand. Similarly, often we'd receive BP gas that was intended for a Motiva (shell) terminal and vice versa.

    At the terminal I currently work at we blend the gasoline and most of the customers (with the exception of BP) are companies you've never heard of, for example Koch, G.E Warren, etc. and their gas is bought by the major brands and distributed. When the gas is being blended it's blended to just meet specs and nothing more. You'd really be amazed at the various blendstocks that make up modern gas and companies don't like to waste any little bit.

    That being said, I do believe that the gas station you buy from does make a difference and this is irrelevant to brand. I only buy my premium (93 octane) at places that have a different hose per grade, so as to not get a hosefull of 87 octane. this might not make a difference so much in my wife's 18.5 gal. tank in her Passat, but it sure does in my airhead . Also, I try to go to places where I know there's a frequent turnover of gasoline to avoid old gas and moisture. You could also shop at newer places to ensure clean tanks, but that doesn't mean the tanker truck that fills the tanks doesn't pump dirt and water into it, so I'd rather go somewhere where the gas is constantly being refilled and outputted.
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  11. #26
    not so retired henzilla's Avatar
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    A top tier problem locally in the news tonight...

    http://www.kxan.com/dpp/news/local/a...om-tainted-gas

    and as Typ181R90 just posted, having maintained the electrical service going into one of those distribution terminals east of Austin I have seen every labled/non labled tanker come in and load up in line with each other.

    Yes, maybe the additive blend is specific to major brands...or should be according to marketing . In TX the State Agriculture Dept. checks the pump volume vs price calibration and put a sticker on the pump every year or two...but I have a feeling no octane or quality test is done.
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  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Typ181R90 View Post
    When the gas is being blended it's blended to just meet specs and nothing more. You'd really be amazed at the various blendstocks that make up modern gas and companies don't like to waste any little bit.
    Haha- No kidding! I was looking at an MSDS for a brand of gasoline not too long ago- under the components- it listed its main ingredient as "Miscellaneous Hydrocarbon Products - 55%"

    Yup-- just pour together whatever you have on hand, and then add some additives to get it up to specs.....

  13. #28
    GIZMO
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    Quote Originally Posted by PGlaves View Post
    And I still carry a bottle of IsoHeet in the red bottle (isopropyl alcohol) when traveling. We have gotten doses of water a couple of times in the past two years.
    I am curious, do you add the IsoHeet at each fill-up while travelling, or only if you suspect bad gas at a given fill-up?

  14. #29
    Out There Somewhere bmwrider88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PGlaves View Post
    If that had read, "Chevron, BP. Shell, and Arco established a standard ... " I would certainly think marketing ploy. But why would "BMW, General Motors, Honda, and Toyota..." dream up a ploy to market specific brands of gasoline. That doesn't compute to me.
    In 2004 BMW, General Motors, Honda, and Toyota established a proprietary standard for a class of gasoline called Top Tier Detergent Gasoline with increased levels of detergents. Volkswagen/Audi joined the consortium in 2007.

    Gas brands can participate and get Top Tier listing if they meet certain standards


    it simply seems to me that if the auto makers invent a *standard* that makers of gasoline *can choose* to meet, then it behooves the gas companies to meet the newly invented standard in order to "comply". we, as consumers, will go to (or look for) the recommended brands, who are in "compliance" with the formerly non-existent "standard"...

    i admit to not knowing much about sales and marketing... but is that not marketing in its base form?

  15. #30
    Out There Somewhere bmwrider88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marchyman View Post
    http://www.toptiergas.com/deposit_control.html

    Contain enough denatured ethanol such that the actual ethanol content is no less than 8.0 and no more than 10.0 volume percent.

    But do they mean it? Lots of stations on the pure gas (no ethanol) web site are stations for oil companies that also claim to meet top tier standards.
    from what i have read, ethanol does not remain stable, or well blended, so the results may vary wildly at the pump. hearsay, i admit (well i read it on the internet)

    anyone?
    EDIT: post #22 appears to address this question.

    Frank, have you tried running STP Gas Treatment (mineral spirits) or Paul G's ISOHEET in your bike? just wondering if there's any additive that will/can compensate for the variances in blends, ethanol content, etc.?

    so-called Top Tier gas seems to only address detergent content? or do i have this wrong? it still sounds like pure BS to me, especially in light of above posts relating to gasoline blending techniques & brands, etc.

    too bad there's no QUALITY STANDARD for gasoline.

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