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Thread: Tier 1 Gasoline

  1. #91
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    That article is a good overview of the issues. It's over five years old so it did not have Exxon as a Top Tier gas which it now is.
    Frank G.
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  2. #92
    Old man in the mountains osbornk's Avatar
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    I think Tier 1 gasoline is claimed to be an improvement over standard gasoline. Bottled water is claimed to be an improvement over standard tap water. They both make the buyer feel better. I don't buy bottled water.
    'You can say what you want about the South, but I almost never hear of anyone wanting to retire to the North.

  3. #93
    Registered User ExGMan's Avatar
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    REC 90 Gasoline

    I am visiting FL at the moment (without my RT), and I see here in Key Largo that there are a couple of stations selling what is called "REC 90." This seems to be a product which has no ethanol in it, and is made by Marathon Oil. It appears to be intended for small recreational engines, which down here, I believe means marine engines. I have not checked the price yet, but imagine it's higher than the 10% ethanol mix.

    I looked at the puregas.org app in my iPhone and there are a bunch of stations (including Sunoco) selling ethanol-free gas down here. Just what you'll need for your boat, but maybe not for riding your H-D down a very long dead-end road to Key West...
    John Gamel
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  4. #94
    Outlander Omega Man's Avatar
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    My recent trip to the local BMW dealer is sort of what prompted my original thread question. There I saw what I thought was a premature build-up on the valves. BMW has been recommending their fuel treatment (Techron in BMW bottle) to keep these high performance contraptions running for some time. I would have to come to the conclusion that adding your own additive package-such as Techron-once in a while, will probably save some fuel related grief. And now for low tec....
    Well, maybe not Tier 1...I just "winterized" 10 engines with the VP Racing fuel. 93 octane refined gas, no ethanol. The engines haven't run this well in some time and the exhaust smell....it was like a friendly aroma from the past-even from the 2 stroke engines. I also added Formula X2 as a longevity treatment.
    "Well they say.. time loves a hero but only time will tell.. If he's real, he's a legend from heaven If he ain't he was sent here from hell" Lowell George
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  5. #95
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    Top Tier

    I don't understand this stuff, having been booted out of high school chemistry eons ago.
    Ethanol is a form of alcohol, is it not? That substance mixes with water, no? Wouldn't it be logical to winterize a vehicle by topping up the fuel tank with something that hold condensates (water) in solution rather than allowing it to pool at low places in the tank?
    I understand wanting ethanol-free fuel when you are actually riding, but for storage I don't see that as desirable.
    Last edited by walt3022; 02-06-2012 at 12:12 AM.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExGMan View Post
    I am visiting FL at the moment (without my RT), and I see here in Key Largo that there are a couple of stations selling what is called "REC 90." This seems to be a product which has no ethanol in it, and is made by Marathon Oil. It appears to be intended for small recreational engines, which down here, I believe means marine engines. I have not checked the price yet, but imagine it's higher than the 10% ethanol mix.

    I looked at the puregas.org app in my iPhone and there are a bunch of stations (including Sunoco) selling ethanol-free gas down here. Just what you'll need for your boat, but maybe not for riding your H-D down a very long dead-end road to Key West...
    Not sure what your last sentence is implying. I just rode to key west and back. Used about 4 fill ups of the Rec 90 which is all over florida. Bike ran fine/not better. Mileage about the same as always. No diff that I noticed and I have about 200k on the 12GS so know the bike.
    Marty Hill
    12 GS black/Boxer Cup Replika

    ride till you can't

  7. #97
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    Ethanol containing gasoline is bad for engines that sit like boats, lawn mowers, antique cars, and carbureted motorcycles. I don't know why, but the complaints of people who needed engine repair are legion. That is why you find ethanol free gasoline in marinas and areas that see lots of boats.
    Frank G.
    Hattiesburg, Mississippi
    2004 R1150RT

  8. #98
    Registered User rxcrider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by walt3022 View Post
    I don't understand this stuff, having been booted out of high school chemistry eons ago.
    Ethanol is a form of alcohol, is it not? That substance mixes with water, no? Wouldn't it be logical to winterize a vehicle by topping up the fuel tank with something that hold condensates (water) in solution rather than allowing it to pool at low places in the tank?
    I understand wanting ethanol-free fuel when you are actually riding, but for storage I don't see that as desirable.
    Read this:
    http://epa.gov/oms/regs/fuels/rfg/waterphs.pdf

    and this:
    http://nationalpetroleum.net/Ethanol...tion-facts.pdf

    Coming from and outdoor power equipment background, the biggest issues I have seen revolve around storing an engine with a partial tank of fuel. Here in Ohio, we have high humidity and significant temperature swings throughout both winter and spring / summer / fall storage seasons, depending on the equipment in question. Having a partial tank of fuel allows for more air circulation, thus allowing more evaporation and breakdown of fuel, and more absorption of water. Fuel containing ethanol is more delicate in this regards and is prone to handing out harsh punishment to those who take a cavalier approach to fuel storage.

    Corrosion casued by sparated ehanol / water blends can lead to costly repairs. Just having to drain stale fuel from a piece of equipment, replace fuel filter(s) and clean the remaining residue can get expensive at shop labor rates. Using a stabilizer toward the end of an operating season and topping off the tank with fresh, stabilized fuel before storage seems to be the best bet for good performance at the beginning of the next operating season. Running an engine 'til it stalls out leaves some remaining fuel to decompose and gum things up, and it really isn't a good idea when a fuel pump is involved. Even manually draining a fuel syustem isn't perfect as drying out rubber and plastic componnents (especially those which are older amd not designed with ethanol in mind, can lead to cracking and component failure / fuel leaks.

    Using fuel without ethanol is great if it is available. Storage in a climate controlled area is wonderful, but not feasible for most of us. Using a fuel stabilizer (with fresh fuel) and keeping the tank topped off before periods of storage is easy and in the majority of cases, quite sufficient. Keep in mind that even with a stabilizer, fuel won't stay fresh forevever. As often as possible, get out and ride. It is good for your bike and your smile.

    Getting back to the Walt's post, using E-10 fuel when returning to service after storage can help absorb any water that may have accumulated during storage, as long as the fuel you are getting has little water in it from the station. Fuel without ethanol is better for the storage period. Either way, fuel stabilizer (added to fresh fuel) and a full tank is key.

  9. #99
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    oxygenated fuel

    Interesting reading, RXCRider. Thanks for posting those. It's odd that there is no letter head or other key to help identify the organization from which the memo comes. Do you know it origin? What I take away from them (the first memo particularly) is that stored fuel that has a bit of ethanol is less likely to suffer phase separation -- which is what I questioned in my other post.
    That is a relief to me since gasoline with ethanol is all I can find hereabouts. I'm also relieved to read that the steps generally advocated on boards such as this one (top up the tank and use a fuel stabilizer) are very effective in preventing problems.

  10. #100
    Registered User rxcrider's Avatar
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    I believe the first one to be an internal EPA memo which they decided to post on their website:
    http://www.epa.gov/otaq/fuels/gasoli...rams/index.htm

    The second one is from Veeder Root showing how their storage tank technology helps in identifying pahse seaparation before it becomes an issue for end consumers.

    While ethanol can absorb more water before phase separation occurs, there are a few issues which make it less than ideal for storage.
    - Because its saturation point rises and falls with temperature, it can absorb water during a period of warm, humid weather and then separate as the fuel cools.
    - It absorbs water from the air

    - When phase separation occurs, it is possible to get three layers: (sometimes) water, water saturated ethanol, and reduced octane gasoline.
    --- Water is corrosive.
    --- water saturated ethanol can damage plastic and rubber components and is corrosive.
    --- the reduced octane gasoline can cause pre-ignition or knocking.

    - I suspect that it is related to storage practices, but E-10 fuel goes stale more quickly than straight gasoline. If stored properly for less than a year, it doesn't seem to be much of an issue, but improper (and maybe extended) storage is not as forgiving as it used to be.

    - Ethanol blended in fuel (even at 10%) can damage fuel system components of some older bikes. (it was dissolving the fiberglass tank on my friend's BSA) This can be an issue regardless of whther the bike is in storage or operation.

    - Just as ethanol can dissolve a fiberglass tank, it can dissolve and loosen old gum / varnish deposits in a dirty tank or carburetor causing issues.

    Here is another article which looks like it is accurate; just substitue bike for boat.
    http://www.a1distributors.net/files/..._and_donts.pdf

  11. #101
    Registered User amiles's Avatar
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    We have a local station known as Markette (one of many generic food/gas/beer stores) that has begun selling "pure gasoline" at an approximate 40 cents over 87 Octane only. It too is claimed to be 87 octane.

    I have yet to test it for alcohol content. I use it in the R90 (no spark knock) and the small yardwork engines, hoping for better storage and lesser damage to rubber parts. I have been using 1oz TCW3 per 5 gallons of gasoline in all the vehicles & the indications I have are that it cleans the combustion areas of the engines as claimed. All seem to be running better with the additive, but I don't discount a placebo effect.

  12. #102
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    Having just returned from Jamaica & seeing E-10 fuel when I filled up my rental car several times & knowing they had no oil there either, I just googled their source & was led to the Jamaican Petro Corp.. I didn't get the root source, but they said a few things relative to this thread,etc.. One was, that sugar cane(the source of their ethanol as they grow the cane on their island) is 4 times more energy efficient than corn. As corn is known to be our source(I suppose "the source" of ours) & given that our sugar producers are heavily subsidized by you & me, it makes me even more certain we are getting ethanol from the wrong place!Per the Brazilian e.g, we need a politico that will do something on this issue of agricultural sources of energy,esp. when its something we already grow! If I say more it will have to go beyond my immediate knowledge & also head towards politics.
    The other things they say, are that they add corrosion inhibitors to counteract that particular baddie from ethanol mixes. Also stated is that they are studying the marine use of ethanol fuel mixes.

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