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Thread: Tier 1 Gasoline

  1. #1
    Outlander Omega Man's Avatar
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    Question Tier 1 Gasoline

    Tier 1 Gasoline in a term that popped up recently. In the "old" days I had confirmed to my own satisfaction that Gas was Gas and it all came out of the same supply tank at the distribution yard. Recently I was told that there is now a difference in the quality/grade of gas between say a Mobil or Shell station and a convenience store pump.
    I buy most of my gas and diesel at Extra Mart (convenience store) here locally and it has all been fine. A little searching on the web is unclear as to whether there is a difference or not. A buddy of mine does quite a bit of haz-mat/pollution control at a local terminal and says that there are now 3 tiers of gas. Supposedly my bike will eventually suffer from running "unbranded" gas unless I use something like Techron regularly.
    Has anyone have any words of wisdom on this? TIA Gary
    "Well they say.. time loves a hero but only time will tell.. If he's real, he's a legend from heaven If he ain't he was sent here from hell" Lowell George
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    Registered User lkchris's Avatar
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    Words of wisdom are to google "top tier."
    Kent Christensen
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    Good question, it's been recommended by several Porsche and BMW auto service centers that tier one gas be used, locally they recommend Chevron, I always stay with a major brand whenever possible. I carry a bottle of Techron in my side bag mixed with Stabil marine.(purple) Pour in a 1oz of the mixture at each fill up if i'am using a off brand of fuel, sometimes you have no choice of fuel scource.

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    Old man in the mountains osbornk's Avatar
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    I personally think it is a marketing ploy more than anything else. I've used whatever was cheap and handy since I started driving and riding in 1962 and I have never had a fuel related problem. I do try to buy gas where it turns over quickly. The gas all comes from the same place but the individual purchasers add the detergents and mix the ethanol in when they load. They use different combinations but I don't think there is a lot of difference.

    I think it's a lot like GM "recommending" that their new cars use GM dexos oils. I did some research and found out GM sells the oil companies the rights to put it on their oil containers and it is not a reflection of the quality of the oil. Many oils that refused to pay into this extortion attempt has as good or better oil than the GM dexos oil.

    I hate it when someone bribes or extorts companies into scaring people into buying a certain product.
    'You can say what you want about the South, but I almost never hear of anyone wanting to retire to the North.

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    Ed Kilner #176066
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    Quote Originally Posted by lkchris View Post
    Words of wisdom are to google "top tier."
    Thank you. I did google it and found it very interesting. In our modern engines, the additives play important roles. If they are not there, the good results won't happen.
    Ed
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    Rally Rat nytrashman's Avatar
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    All gas is the same as it is refined by the same process. the difference between a name brand (top tier) and convince store gas is the additive/detergent package that is added to the refined product by each individual brand.

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    Outlander Omega Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nytrashman View Post
    All gas is the same as it is refined by the same process. the difference between a name brand (top tier) and convince store gas is the additive/detergent package that is added to the refined product by each individual brand.
    That is sorta what it sounds like. There was an f800 apart in the shop and it had enough of a build-up on the valves that it required service. BMW has been recommending their private label bottle of Techron for some time.
    "Well they say.. time loves a hero but only time will tell.. If he's real, he's a legend from heaven If he ain't he was sent here from hell" Lowell George
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    Out There Somewhere bmwrider88's Avatar
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    i've heard a lot of internet chit chat about gas, where it comes from, etc.
    near as i can tell it is largely BS. having said that, i almost always buy Sunoco for the bikes (when available), and go for the highest octane i can get. maybe it's purely psychological, but it seems the bikes run better on the Sunoco 93 than on other gas.

    here's some internet info on top tier gasoline from Wiki:

    "Top Tier Detergent Gasoline is a designation given to participating Gasoline brands in the U.S. and Canada that meet voluntary industry standards.

    History

    The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) introduced the minimum gasoline detergent standard [1] in 1995 and soon after most gasoline marketers who had previously provided higher levels of detergents reduced the concentration level of detergents in commercial gasoline to meet the new standard. Whether the higher detergent levels were necessary remains disputed. The levels required are necessary to meet emissions standards but not engine longevity standards.

    In 2004 BMW, General Motors, Honda, and Toyota established a proprietary standard for a class of gasoline called Top Tier Detergent Gasoline with increased levels of detergents. Volkswagen/Audi joined the consortium in 2007.

    Gas brands can participate and get Top Tier listing if they meet certain standards."

    the consensus is still out on the concept, it seems. seems there is a school of thought that says top-tier, detergent gasoline can decrease carbon build-up and add to engine longevity. i wonder how/if ethanol fits into the equation?

    the whole bit sounds like a marketing ploy to me.

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    Benchwrenching PGlaves's Avatar
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    If that had read, "Chevron, BP. Shell, and Arco established a standard ... " I would certainly think marketing ploy. But why would "BMW, General Motors, Honda, and Toyota..." dream up a ploy to market specific brands of gasoline. That doesn't compute to me.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
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    Registered User 36654's Avatar
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    Along these lines..........

    A few weeks ago, I had something happen that hasn't happened in years........I got a bad tank of gas. It was a real shock. I had to do the the whole injector cleaner and dry gas routine until I burned the bad stuff.

    Funny, but I can remember as a kid, carrying dry gas all the time (especially in winter) and routinely dealing with a stumbling idol and nursing the throttle until you worked the bad stuff through the system. But, that was in a VW Beetle, so I could also curse the lack of heat.

    So, yes, things are better today......
    Cave contents: 99 R11RS, 2013 Toyota Tacoma, 03 Simplicity Legacy, 97 Stihl FS75, Dewalt DW625 & DW744

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    Benchwrenching PGlaves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 36654 View Post
    A few weeks ago, I had something happen that hasn't happened in years........I got a bad tank of gas. It was a real shock. I had to do the the whole injector cleaner and dry gas routine until I burned the bad stuff.

    Funny, but I can remember as a kid, carrying dry gas all the time (especially in winter) and routinely dealing with a stumbling idol and nursing the throttle until you worked the bad stuff through the system. But, that was in a VW Beetle, so I could also curse the lack of heat.

    So, yes, things are better today......
    And I still carry a bottle of IsoHeet in the red bottle (isopropyl alcohol) when traveling. We have gotten doses of water a couple of times in the past two years.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
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    http://www.bigbend.net/users/glaves

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    Many years ago, I worked for a oil/gas distributor. All of the gas that went to the gas stations, whether it was Mobil, Chevron, etc were all the same gas. The only one that was different was Sunoco. Today, things are different. Distributors have different blends for summer and winter. Some have no alcohol where others have 10%. If the pump doesn't have a 10% sticker on the pump, it is pure gas (rule might be different in some states). Or, it is suppose to be pure gas. As most of us know, the oil industry is not the most honest group of people. You can only hope that they meet the minimum. Most state officials only check the pumps to make sure that when you pump 5 gallons of gas, you are getting 5 gallons of gas. The quality of the gas is still like the "Wild West".

    All gas stations get water in their tanks. This comes from condensation on the tank walls. They are suppose to stick the tanks every day and check for the level of water at the bottom of the tank with a chemical paste. If the water level gets too high, they have to pump out some of the water. Some do check, where others don't. If you get water in your gas, the gas station is liable for reasonable damages. Your rights vary from state-to-state. In New York, the gas station owner is screwed if the state learns of customers getting water in their gas.

    From what I understand, Sunoco still does quality blending. For the most part, the rest have the same stuff. I am sure there are a few exceptions to the rule. Like I said, it has been quite a few years since I worked in that field. But, I would guess that not much has changed.

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    Cam Killer marchyman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmwrider88 View Post
    i wonder how/if ethanol fits into the equation?
    http://www.toptiergas.com/deposit_control.html

    Contain enough denatured ethanol such that the actual ethanol content is no less than 8.0 and no more than 10.0 volume percent.

    But do they mean it? Lots of stations on the pure gas (no ethanol) web site are stations for oil companies that also claim to meet top tier standards.

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    I buy the cheapest gas I can get. I plan ahead in various directions for the best price,e.g., when I'm over Osbornk's way/VA, I can get from E.KY to the Flying J & use my RV 2cent discount card + the best price! on one tank from home in a car/truck. On my bike that way I have to bite the bullet & buy some before then. When I go down the Blue Grass PKWY in KY toward Nashville, I but near the TN/KY state line as always less. When I go straight shot south I buy near the TN/KY state line again as always much less, then again just above Chatt,TN as always less there.
    During one of the recent BS gas inflations(also known as getting ripped off) it went up 40cents gal in/near Lexington,KY over the holidays. The news told us it was because the Iranians were saying they might block the gulf. A letter from a truck driver(I remember CNN/Wolf Blitzer during the sniper ordeal saying "what does a truck driver know?", well this one drives the KY/TN south route every day & he knew that the people in TN were not afraid of the Iranians cause the gas didn't go up 40cents there, in fact stayed the same!
    Now, I know none of this is technical but I know nothing of refinery stuff or distribution, but other than one dose of water in the gas I have zero problems getting a speeding ticket with the cheapest stuff I can get my hands on. Always amazes me the people that pull into the place next door & pay lots more. Maybe they are "tier 1 gas addicted"?

  15. #15
    Old man in the mountains osbornk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kantuckid View Post
    I buy the cheapest gas I can get. I plan ahead in various directions for the best price,e.g., when I'm over Osbornk's way/VA, I can get from E.KY to the Flying J & use my RV 2cent discount card + the best price
    If you're over my way on I-81, you can get 100% gas at Rouse Oil at the Chilhowie, Va exit #35. It is just across the RR tracks toward Chilhowie. You can also get 100% gas at the Marathon near the RR tracks in Marion between exit 45 and 47 on Rt11/Rt16.
    'You can say what you want about the South, but I almost never hear of anyone wanting to retire to the North.

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