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Thread: Paralever bushing failure

  1. #1
    Lucky motorradmike's Avatar
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    Paralever bushing failure

    Hi guys:

    After 2 seasons and about 23,000 miles my bushings are shot. The pics are for the outboard one, the inboard one looks a lot better.
    I'm not sure what went wrong, I did the 1,000 mile re-adjust. Slight tightening was required at that point.

    Here's the outboard race cleaned up with scoring visible.


    And here is the bronze bushing, the deep scores run all the way round it.



    At this point I'm leaning strongly towards giving the bushings a second try but I'm hoping that some of you guys who have done this a few times might be able to tell me what went wrong.

    Thanks
    Mike Marr
    1978 Yamaha XS750 (Needs rings), 1996 BMW R1100RS, 2004 Honda CRF230F

  2. #2
    Rally Rat
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    Hi Mike,

    Check your PMs.

    Thanks,

    Jim Moore

  3. #3
    slowrider
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    Mine did the samething after approx 7000 mi. They just started to eat themselves up, also started to turn on the pivot pins . Went back to the OEM bearings

  4. #4
    Registered User Olsensan's Avatar
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    That is a real mess to say the least! Those bushings look as though they were rotated many many times under some serious pressure. I thought that they had limited motion as the FD would move to road and chassis deflection/movement. Someone please chime in and illuminate me as to the condition of those bushings.

  5. #5
    Benchwrenching PGlaves's Avatar
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    My take, but I could be wrong.

    It looks like they were tightened too tight.

    or

    It looks like they lacked lubricant.

    Or both.

    We have two bikes they have been in for about 100K miles and they don't look like that.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
    "The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution." - Bertrand Russell
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  6. #6
    Lucky motorradmike's Avatar
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    Thanks for your input Paul.

    I suppose I could've overtightened to begin with but they were quite loose when I took this apart.

    As for the lube, they were done at assembly with Honda Moly and not ever again which may have been a mistake.

    The inboard side is badly worn too but on the inside where it was rotating on the pin.
    Mike Marr
    1978 Yamaha XS750 (Needs rings), 1996 BMW R1100RS, 2004 Honda CRF230F

  7. #7
    Benchwrenching PGlaves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MotorradMike View Post
    Thanks for your input Paul.

    I suppose I could've overtightened to begin with but they were quite loose when I took this apart.

    As for the lube, they were done at assembly with Honda Moly and not ever again which may have been a mistake.

    The inboard side is badly worn too but on the inside where it was rotating on the pin.
    I don't like Honda Moly 60 in this application at all Mike. As somebody pointed out on another thread I recently read, Honda specs that 60% moly paste for splines where the wheel mounts, meaning it is renewed about every 10,000 miles, and that is not a sliding environment. While a little moly is a good thing, a nice sticky extreme pressure grease would be my preference here.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
    "The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution." - Bertrand Russell
    http://www.bigbend.net/users/glaves

  8. #8
    Lucky motorradmike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PGlaves View Post
    I don't like Honda Moly 60 in this application at all Mike. As somebody pointed out on another thread I recently read, Honda specs that 60% moly paste for splines where the wheel mounts, meaning it is renewed about every 10,000 miles, and that is not a sliding environment. While a little moly is a good thing, a nice sticky extreme pressure grease would be my preference here.
    OK.
    I was going to buy Guard Dog -525 for the spline lube and think I remember you recommending mixing it 50/50 with something else.

    While I've got your attention, what would you put on:

    a) The clutch splines.

    b) The paralever pivot bushings.

    c) The paralever pivot bearings.

    Thanks for the help!
    I still don't know which way I'll go on the pivot bushing/bearing choice. Maybe one of each, I like a unique bike.
    Mike Marr
    1978 Yamaha XS750 (Needs rings), 1996 BMW R1100RS, 2004 Honda CRF230F

  9. #9
    Benchwrenching PGlaves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MotorradMike View Post
    OK.
    I was going to buy Guard Dog -525 for the spline lube and think I remember you recommending mixing it 50/50 with something else.

    While I've got your attention, what would you put on:

    a) The clutch splines.

    b) The paralever pivot bushings.

    c) The paralever pivot bearings.

    Thanks for the help!
    I still don't know which way I'll go on the pivot bushing/bearing choice. Maybe one of each, I like a unique bike.
    I have mixed Honda Moly 60 and the green sticky grease, Wurth Sig 3000 - giving me a 30% moly content in a sticky EP grease. That combination is similar to GD 525 which is a 30% moly content grease already.

    I use GD525 on splines and those bushings. For the bearings I would use my hypodermic style grease gun tip and any good wheel bearing grease-gun grease.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
    "The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution." - Bertrand Russell
    http://www.bigbend.net/users/glaves

  10. #10
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    Bronze bushings require a grease with a high oil content. Moly grease is for extreme pressure, steel on steel. This never happens with bronze. You need an ag type of grease with very little or no Moly. Something like boat trailer wheel bearing grease. Silicone grease. Greases with graphite or Teflon work well too. In the automotive industry where I work, it is well known that high moly content or EP greases will kill bushings. Dow Corning 33, or Krytox work quite well and are expensive. Chevron SRI grease works well also.

    That said, I still use the BMW roller bearing with Krytox grease, and they are doing OK for now.

    Rod

  11. #11
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    Bearings/Bushings

    Another .02 from a NON-mechanic. . .

    When I installed these bronze bushings, I noted that they were VERY TIGHT on the pivot pins. The instructions from Rubber Chicken (Tom Cuttter) must be read very, very carefully, and I'd read several other tutorials before undertaking this job, were I you. The first-time through can be stressful, especially when using WELD-IT-TOGETHER Loctite that requires HEAT to remove! You do have more time than you think you do, but you must have the process firmly in mind, and don't delay on any step. . .

    I think "some" of these failures are occasioned by FAILING TO REMOVE SOME MATERIAL FROM THE PIVOT PINS, SO THAT THE BUSHING SEATS FULLY AGAINST THE STOP OF THE PIN. My pins were also OUT OF ROUND. Use crocus cloth or similar fine-grit sandpaper to carefully take the pins down until you get a VERY TIGHT interference fit -- you can just barely push it all the way "home" by use of powerful hands. . .Now, just try to get it back off for the Loctite! (yes, you can!) You must proceed slowly, and take it down in stages, or be ready to use the "pivot pin enlarger" and these are hard to find, and expensive.

    I think a lot of installers just count on torquing the pin down and "forcing" it home, which I believe (in my manifest noobness) to be a mistake. I think the bushing won't always seat on the pin(s) and won't "bottom out" unless the fit is right beforehand, but I could be wrong. I also believe that this is the reason that some have had to "re-torque" after "500-1,000" miles, which is AN UNNECESSARY STEP IF THERE IS NO FD PLAY AT THIS MILEAGE. Mine was tight-as-a-drum, and no adjustment required. Obviously, keep checking for play as part of your pre-flight, but I've now put several thousand spirited miles on the RS, (very thin chicken strips). . .and the FD is still tight.

    Also, I used the final drive "drop" method, as suggested by Tom Cutter and others, and believe it to be superior to using a torque wrench. Otherwise, why does Tom recommend it? and he's done "a few."

    Walking Eagle

  12. #12
    Benchwrenching PGlaves's Avatar
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    If the interference fit between the pins and inside of the bushing is too tight, the bronze bushing may split. Oilite bronze is very hard in compression, but it is brittle and will split in tension.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
    "The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution." - Bertrand Russell
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  13. #13
    Cave Creek AZ 85k100lt's Avatar
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    Angry Read it and weep!!

    From this website:

    http://www.rubberchickenracinggarage.com/bushings.html



    We recommend the HONDA MOLY 60 PASTE for lubrication of the Paralever Bushing kit as well as many other spline lubrication needs on your BMW. You can conveniently order the Honda Lube here: HONDA MOLY 60 PASTE.

    Do you guys know better???
    1974 R75/6 W Sidecar
    1989 R100GS


  14. #14
    Registered User mpmarty's Avatar
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    Do you guys know better???
    __________________
    Lots of experience here I'd think the answer is "probably"
    Marty - in the western Oregon mountains.'06RT, (gone '04RT, '86 Venture Royal, '81 Yamaha Virago920, '82Suzuki GS1100GK, '76 Suzuki GT750, Triumph 750 Bonneville, BSA Road Rocket 650, 61" Harley knucklehead)

  15. #15
    Benchwrenching PGlaves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 85K100LT View Post
    From this website:

    http://www.rubberchickenracinggarage.com/bushings.html



    We recommend the HONDA MOLY 60 PASTE for lubrication of the Paralever Bushing kit as well as many other spline lubrication needs on your BMW. You can conveniently order the Honda Lube here: HONDA MOLY 60 PASTE.

    Do you guys know better???
    I have used it and found it too dry in my opinion. And since bronze bushings absorb oil that is likely to make it dryer yet. I want a sticky, oily, grease. I have the highest respect for Tom Cutter, but that doesn't mean we always agree. I use anti seize on spark plug threads. He doesn't. (It messes up torque specs) I use a moly additive in gear oil. He doesn't. (He knows the benefits but hates the mess it leaves where he takes transmissions apart).
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
    "The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution." - Bertrand Russell
    http://www.bigbend.net/users/glaves

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