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Thread: BMW ON December 2013

  1. #1
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    BMW ON December 2013

    Ever so often when reading magazines or news, I wonder what happened to the function of good old "editing".
    What do all these people who have these great "editor" titles do? Sit in their chairs and rub the pins on their lapels?
    Does ANYBODY do any proof-reading before something goes into print?
    Now it has struck the ON also:
    In the December 2013 issue, we have the usual list of events under WHENANDWHERE on page 124.
    Event No 2 is the Death Valley Rendezvous February 14-16. Event No 3 is, according to the map, something in NC. But the description copies the exact same event as No 2.
    Don't tell me that was an "oversight". It is so blatant, NOBODY even could have looked at that

  2. #2
    Cowboyatheart
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMSimon View Post
    Ever so often when reading magazines or news, I wonder what happened to the function of good old "editing".
    What do all these people who have these great "editor" titles do? Sit in their chairs and rub the pins on their lapels?
    Does ANYBODY do any proof-reading before something goes into print?
    Now it has struck the ON also:
    In the December 2013 issue, we have the usual list of events under WHENANDWHERE on page 124.
    Event No 2 is the Death Valley Rendezvous February 14-16. Event No 3 is, according to the map, something in NC. But the description copies the exact same event as No 2.
    Don't tell me that was an "oversight". It is so blatant, NOBODY even could have looked at that
    Seems like you should offer some volunteer editing services to help out.
    Neil
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  3. #3
    Benchwrenching PGlaves's Avatar
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    Last I heard, Rebecca had resigned and I don't recall hearing that she had yet been replaced. I think that leaves Vince stretched a bit thin. Whether that is excusable lies in the mind of the beholder but I, at least, am willing to cut him a bit of slack. YMMV
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    Quote Originally Posted by nelliott View Post
    Seems like you should offer some volunteer editing services to help out.
    It's funny that every time when a job is not being done properly and it is pointed out, some suggest that the "whistleblower" should do a better job or volunteer...

  5. #5
    rangerreece rangerreece's Avatar
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    Rebecca resigned? Noooooooooooooooo

    For the record I like the minor spelling and grammatical mistakes, especially from contributors, it makes the the published product real to me. Homogenized perfection, not my cup of tea.
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  6. #6
    Still Wondering mika's Avatar
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    Mike points out a legitimate problem in his OP. Paul puts the problem in a bit of a new light and context (at least for me) with his post. Neil makes the traditional reply of this historically volunteer driven organization. That solution was reasonable and viable when I first joined the MOA in the mid 80s and the ON Editor was just moving from its newsletter roots to something looking more and more like a magazine; however, some thirty years latter it strikes me as a possible part of a solution but certainly not the whole solution for the evolving membership expectations and what the Media Editor is responsible for now.

    The membership of the MOA are not only the readers of ON but the owners and publishers of the various publications of the organization. Finding errors in publications has been a legitimate reader sport for as long as I have been consuming information. If and how you deal with those errors as owners and publishers is the discussion we never seem to get to. What are our expectations? What does it take to meet them? How do the two currently match up?
    Pass the mustard and UP THE REVOLUTION!

    St. Paul Pioneer Press , Minneapolis Star Tribune

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    Please, guys, a "minor spelling error" is one thing, a whole paragraph duplicated is something else. During the layout process, someone has to work on set-up and line break. I am not that picky, and I know we all make mistakes. Read the thing and judge for yourself.

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    My biggest complaint concerns the CONTENT rather than simply a misspelling or poor English grammar (though I don't like those either!).

    For example, the article written about trailering a trailer on a bike (issue sometime last summer) I found full of opinion and pretty sparse on fact. It was clear to me that the author (who admits that he doesn't pull trailers at all, and never had) was doing nothing more than giving his opinion and just couching it in good sounding "facts."

    This sort of writing has been evident (to me, at least) in other articles as well, some by those who are supposed to be experts.

    I think this (trailering issue) is also about a lot of opinion, and everyone probably has one, I have an opinion too, but it is based upon my experience building trailers, and pulling trailers (thousands of miles without even one mishap or even one issue).

    This, along with Mike's thread above, goes a long way to making me view most of what is in the mag with a grain of salt. Obviously anyone with differing perspectives can offer information that is useful to others, but this particular mag seems to be heavy on opinion and light on fact.

    This isn't new. 25 years or so ago, it was plagued with the same problem.

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    Careful, Jim! Your complaints actually invite return comments about contributing and participating. The magazine very much depends on members and volunteers as far as subject matter and articles are concerned. I will never criticize that, because I salute those who take the time to put something together to add to the magazine. I look at the magazine as a nice benefit of my MOA membership and I read what I like and ignore what I don't.
    If the content eventually moves too far away from my personal interest and I see little other benefits in my membership, I will not renew.
    This issue that I have here is something else. It is about the quality of a publication which to produce and maintain people are being paid for.
    If I process an order from one of my customers and I send 19 pieces instead of 20 that were ordered, I made a mistake, and everybody, I hope, will accept this and allow me to correct it.
    If I send the customer an invoice for an order without shipping anything, I have not done my job properly and I need to seriously look into a remedy. I also will have to accept that people complain about it.

    If i send the club newsletter with a spelling error or typing mistake (--oops, I do that all the time) you and/or some other club member will make a joke or tease me about it. If the newsletter contains two paragraphs of the same news item right next each other, you guys will all question my dedication and ask if I had too much Lagavulin while I was writing it (--oops I had that again)

  10. #10
    Small road corner junkie pffog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMSimon View Post
    .........................
    Don't tell me that was an "oversight". It is so blatant, NOBODY even could have looked at that

    Any of you play Golf???? I don't either, but live next to a course. When we were kids we fished balls out of the water and out of bounds areas, and sold them back to the Golfers. And several times we would see a 4 some looking for a ball and never find it, we would wait until they were out of site and go look, and many times the thing was in plain sight!!!!!

    I proof read most everything I write, but then gone back later and found a gross error.

    It is easy to miss the obvious:

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  11. #11
    Still Wondering mika's Avatar
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    I agree content issues are another matter.

    Quote Originally Posted by EMSimon View Post
    SNIP...This issue that I have here is something else. It is about the quality of a publication which to produce and maintain people are being paid for...SNIP
    Quality has been an issue for me since the 80's. Are problems in the personnel (individuals, staffing levels or ______) or in the systemic (process employed in production, expansion of roles or______)? The move from an Editor of ON to a Media Editor job description made sense to me.. The point of volunteered or paid staff is not a primary, secondary or much of a concern to me, rather a measure of the overhead the association is expending on the errors. The association expanded and redefined the job description and goals of the position. Have we our money and support (real or figurative) where our mouth is to get the quality products we continue to expect?
    Pass the mustard and UP THE REVOLUTION!

    St. Paul Pioneer Press , Minneapolis Star Tribune

  12. #12
    Registered User Emoto's Avatar
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    Having been involved in various facets of the publishing business off and on since the 1980s, I can tell you that it is very easy to make an error such as the OP points out. Much easier than one might think. It is also possible to have a handful of people proof something and have them all miss the same error. I know this from personal experience. Then, add the factors that this is a club magazine with content mostly written and submitted by members and we don't have a big staff to get it all done, and a simple error is not only easy to understand, but also forgivable.

    I think that the crew does an outstanding job of putting out the magazine, and I suspect that nobody feels worse about letting a booboo slip through than they do.
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  13. #13
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    Has any of those who "play this down" as a small "error" actually seen what I am talking about?
    The casual reader of the magazine may miss this. Especially if he doesn't give a hoot about events.
    If you are given the task to "edit" or "proof read" and take that seriously, I have absolutely no idea how you could.
    I have also been involved in editing, setting up and laying out publications, so I think I know what I am talking about.
    Would you miss two identical pictures on the same page?
    But I realize, this could be one of these issues in our fine club, where critcism is not politically correct and I herewith quit this subject.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMSimon View Post
    Careful, Jim! Your complaints actually invite return comments about contributing and participating. The magazine very much depends on members and volunteers as far as subject matter and articles are concerned.
    I readily understand, but I disagree in that someone has to be responsible as to what is presented to the readers. If an article is simply recounting a trip or an experience, or simply journaling a repair that they have done, I don't mind. What I do mind is where there is some "pontificating" going on in presenting some "fact" or another. This happens on articles where an "expert" is telling us how to repair something.

    As to the article on trailering, I had read it through 3 or 4 times, word for word, and each time I got more frustrated as it (to me) played loose with the facts. I have thought of writing a counter point article, but am still in the process of figuring out a way to do it without appearing to be simply attacking that first article. Maybe for spring....

    Now, to the various posters who seem to justify the mistakes based upon the fact that "some" are just volunteers I answer that somebody needs to at least screen the material for mistakes (spelling/grammar, etc. and sometimes even factuality) so that it doesn't get through to publication. The people who read these articles/ads, etc. are paying customers as Mike implies, and therefore deserve to have it published error free.

    What I have never had pointed out to me clearly is which person(s) is/are the ones who are payed, and which are volunteers?

    As to one comment, the one about dropping membership, if it weren't for my liking the forums - especially for advice from others who have had personal experience repairing the thing I am working on. Their insights are invaluable.

    If it weren't for that. I would not renew my membership, and I will think long and hard.

    However there is one person who (whether paid or not) goes far beyond the call of duty. He is Kurt, one of the moderators. Don't always agree with him, but I truly admire him because he does a great job - not just for me, but for everyone!

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMSimon View Post
    Has any of those who "play this down" as a small "error" actually seen what I am talking about?
    The casual reader of the magazine may miss this. Especially if he doesn't give a hoot about events.
    ...

    But I realize, this could be one of these issues in our fine club, where critcism is not politically correct and I herewith quit this subject.
    Mike, Mike, Mike.

    You sound like maybe your medicine is wearing off? Calm down.

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