Starting a firestorm about E10 fuels and addititves

[PattiB]

Ok, so thinking about putting the bikes up for winter. Now all you who ride all year can call me whatever...but I came across this article about fuel additives and Ethanol added fuels.

http://www.fuel-testers.com/fuel_add...reatments.html

Basically they state that there is no such product that can cure Ethanol woes for engines and all the additives that are sold are garbage. Also it has information whether your state requires the station to post Ethanol percentage on the pump or not. It also says that ALL gasoline sold in the US has Ethanol in it.

So I am not adding anything to my fuel and hoping for the best come the first sign of spring to change the fuel in all the bikes then.

This Ethanol debate sounds like we all lose especially those of us with bikes built before 2000. More money for your mechanic due to fuel problems....

Ok, let 'er rip!!!!!!!!!!!!

[JDOCKERY132445]

All of that is old information. Many of us found out the hard way what ethanol can do to engines and fuel systems when they are left idle with ethanol gas in them.

There is an additive that works though.

Marine formula Sta-Bil works with ethanol fuels.

[69ZEFF65]

I have heard there is a State by State movement to get the ethanol additive removed from fuel. Here in Florida I hear it is being driven by the farming and marine industry but until then its either Sta-Bil or there's another product I saw at my local BMW dealer "?Something? 2000" I don't know the correct name but Ft Myers Florida BMW motorcycle dealer has it and a pretty dramatic display of the difference between the top of the line additives and this 2000 stuff as well as just straight up 10% Ethanol fuel.

[bikerfish1100]

yeah, ethanol sucks.

and this should probably be in the Motorad section, rather than Oilheads, because it is an issue that impacts all bikes, not just oilheads BMWs.
mod- ya wanna get that roller coaster rolling?

[jammess]

Check out pure-gas.org

[Omega Man]

I'm running a rather large assortment of engines and the "new" gas has been causing me trouble not seen before. I am trying SEF http://seffuels.com/ this year as most of the engines will be left "wet" over the winter. I will be trying Formula X2 also. This is relatively expensive but if it saves one carburetor/fuel system this winter it's a winner.

and this should probably be in the Motorad section, rather than Oilheads, because it is an issue that impacts all bikes, not just oilheads BMWs.

Good point BF, I'll move it on over.

[ANDYVH]

Well, for me up here in Wisconsin, E10 has been around long enough that I have parked the bike probably for at least the past four years, very likely with E10 fuel in the gas tank. I have not had one single fuel related problem with my 94 RS, which has fairly high miles on it. I think some of that has to with my locale, as winter in Wisconsin tends to be dry, and cold, thus reducing evaporation and moisture absorption (the two main cons of E10). E10 degradation is much more an issue in the warmer/humid southern climates.

I do avoid E10 fuel when I can, but if I do get some in the tank I usually try to run the fuel through the bike so it does not sit three months without non E10 fresh fuel. But I'd bet I have stored my bike with E10 in it in the past. There are no gains in using E10, it dsiplaces food for fuel, it costs as much to make as to sell (competitively), it lowers fuel mileage, causes engines to run more lean/hotter, nothing good about it.

Now the idiots in Washington have ok'd the marketing of E15 fuel. I have read numerous articles about the known and documented problems of E15 in engines not specifically designed to run E15. All small engine makers warn against using any E15. The entire recreational vehicle manufacturer market warns against well known issues caused by E10 and soon E15 fuels. Even the contractor market has rallied against it because of problems it causes for much of their equipment. Yet, the knobs in government as usual do no real research on the real market wants or needs before shoving it on the public. The best way to combat that, is for the market as a whole to refuse to buy E15.

[greenwald]

All of that is old information. Many of us found out the hard way what ethanol can do to engines and fuel systems when they are left idle with ethanol gas in them.

There is an additive that works though.

Marine formula Sta-Bil works with ethanol fuels.

Just echo'ing JDOCKERY's comments. This 'hot debate' was over before it even got started. Ethanol sucks as a fuel additive, is simply a politically-motivated 'solution' to the energy crisis, and the Marine-grade Sta-Bil (the 'blue' stuff) works great!!

The report you cite is from a company that came into existence (1990) miraculously about the time ethanol starting creeping into our tanks and it looks like they feed on the paranoia that evolved as a result.

I read the entire 'About Us' paragraphs of their web site.

To paraphrase Shakespere: "Me thinks they doth protest too much."

[martyhill]

How much of the marine grade sta-bil do you add to a 5 gal. 12GS tank? I've had no problems as yet but thought I'd give it a try.
TIA.

[DennisDarrow]

For me, Stabil is a constant staple in all of my small engines and has been for several years now. Started with chain saw and leaf blower fuel lines dissentagrating, honda generator and pressure washer float bowels oxidizing, crud in my B&S mowers,tillers, splitter, and chipper jets and passageways, and of course the floats in my /6 becoming lead weights several years ago. Since then, I have been treating each 5 gallon can of fuel that I bring home with the older Stabil and this year with the marine type. ZERO fuel related problems. ZERO

In addition, often times I will put in a pretty huge dollop of Lucas fuel treatment either directly in the fuel tank or in the gas cans. For me I pretty much follow the directions on the side of the Stabil container......something like, I think, 1oz per 2 1/2 gallons of fuel.

You city guys think you have problems....try algae growing in your fuel tank or storage tank and eliminating that.........Common for agricultural diesel equipment...........God bless..........Dennis

[Omega Man]

You city guys think you have problems....try algae growing in your fuel tank or storage tank and eliminating that.........Common for agricultural diesel equipment...........God bless..........Dennis

I'm familiar with this as well. As far as the gas goes.....if you happen to have a white car it shows up real well. Above the door that covers the gas cap-look for something the looks like mold. What me and some of my mechanic buddies have figured is it's a type of mold released from the small amount of fermentation that seems to be occurring. It is very visible on the plastic gas cans that I use, it almost looks like tree sap and to remove it takes a scrub brush-(I also use a 15% bleach solution). All things considered, I'm surprised I'm able to keep things running as well as I do.

[Visian]

For me, Stabil is a constant staple in all of my small engines and has been for several years now. Started with chain saw and leaf blower fuel lines dissentagrating, honda generator and pressure washer float bowels oxidizing, crud in my B&S mowers,tillers, splitter, and chipper jets and passageways, and of course the floats in my /6 becoming lead weights several years ago. Since then, I have been treating each 5 gallon can of fuel that I bring home with the older Stabil and this year with the marine type. ZERO fuel related problems. ZERO

can i come over and borrow your yard tools, Dennis?

You city guys think you have problems....try algae growing in your fuel tank or storage tank and eliminating that.........Common for agricultural diesel equipment...........God bless..........Dennis

Yeah, I use a bottle of stuff for my Yanmar tractor's diesel all year round....

[dockeithdc]

As a side note... I was speaking to a Polaris employee who had some interesting information. She said that many of the snowmobiles and victory motorcycles were having a miriad of fuel related problems. With that Polaris sent them a meter to measure the level of ethanol that was present in the offending vehicle's tank.

She said on average the level was between 16-19%. Then they took a jerry jug to the local gas station and took 2 gallons straight from the pump. You guessed it 16%.

Polaris's answer for this... The ethanol seperates from the gas while it sits. If the station did not receive a new shipment or perhaps you are the first to pump and no aggitation has occured you get a higher concentration of corn juice.

Therefore use stations with a higher turnover of fuel. This may be part of the problem when using high grade fuels and higher octane grades. The seperation occurs before you can add any formula to it. FWIW

[ANDYVH]

THAT is REALLY interesting information, and it may explain why I have never had any issues with my 94 RS. I tend to ride almost only in Wisconsin and upper Michigan, and I have a set group of fuel stations I fill at. Perhaps I have simply been avoiding the higher concentrations and then because I ride regularly, what I do get I use up right away.

But I also have a 96 Arctic Cat carbbed ZR580 snowmobile, which I ride in remote areas of Wisconsin. So I think stocking up some Stabil blue is the next thing to do.

[MikeD]

Omega Man has one of the answers. SEF by VP racing is being marketed to emergency services for their small engines. I start to use it at the end of the riding season prior to putting the bikes up and it has worked well.