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Thread: Class Action Lawsuit Against BMW NA

  1. #16
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    Okay, you are right...

    Google "Class Action Lawsuit Lawyer", find an honest sounding name and GO FOR IT!

    Hope you win!
    MOA #46783
    2014 R1200RT

  2. #17
    Registered User greenwald's Avatar
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by Jogitu View Post
    The point is and it seems to be lost on some is that they should be forthcoming with basic information as it pertains to the bike. If you own a previous model that has this information in the manual good for you but they don't do that anymore. If this basic information was available I would not have a gripe. I don't believe it is whining when the manufacturer of a product will not provide me with the basic information they recommend to keep the bike in service. When I get every dealer I talk to telling me different things I become suspicious. Essentially this has become a racket for the dealers. They have the backing from BMW NA to tell you anything that must be done to keep the bike in service. So a service that should be a basic oil change and inspection becomes a $450 service. If you call BMW NA they will give their stamp of approval. Call me crazy but I would like something in writing that spells all of this out. They used to do it and I fail to understand why they cannot do this now. I have no problem with the dealer making money but not by forcing me to do service not required or really necessary. At this point BMW NA is mum and all I have to rely on is the Internet. Yeah, that's a reasonable way to get information for a $20k purchase, through chat rooms and forums. Not like I would get any bad information from the Internet.
    Actually Kevin, many of us have 'felt your pain,' and also wish that BMW would be less cloaked in ambiguity when it comes to something as simple as standardized maintenance.

    It is not uncommon to find a dealer or his mechanic talking out of both sides of their mouths reference 'scheduled maintenance,' 'routine service,' and other catch-phrases associated with trying to keep these two-wheeled space shuttles in running order. I too have researched problems with a trio of dealers and have gotten three different answers to the same questions - frustrating.

    But frustration is hardly solid ground for talking a class-action suit. To be an aggreived person, and establish that there are many others like you, is not as easy a legal task as you might think.

    BMW NA needs to do a better job of presenting their desired/required service on their motorcycles to the consumer (and the dealer, for that matter). What many of us have done is to examine our Owner's Manuals, talk with master mechanics, review other sources of information (forums, internet sites, etc.) and then create our own checklist for maintenance and replacement of servicable components and systems. DIY ("Do-It-Yourself") is not a universal solution, as we are not all Paul Glaves. So clear lines of communication between consumer, dealer and corporate would be nice.

    To conclude, maybe not the way it should be, but it's the convoluted world we live in when dealing with a manufacturer who is frequently admonished for not being as open, cooperative or forthcoming (can we say 'post-2004 final drives?!') as they should be.
    Last edited by Greenwald; 07-13-2011 at 11:58 PM.
    Kevin Greenwald - Touring Tips Editor
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  3. #18
    Registered User Paladinwest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jogitu View Post
    The point is and it seems to be lost on some is that they should be forthcoming with basic information as it pertains to the bike. If you own a previous model that has this information in the manual good for you but they don't do that anymore. If this basic information was available I would not have a gripe. I don't believe it is whining when the manufacturer of a product will not provide me with the basic information they recommend to keep the bike in service. When I get every dealer I talk to telling me different things I become suspicious. Essentially this has become a racket for the dealers. They have the backing from BMW NA to tell you anything that must be done to keep the bike in service. So a service that should be a basic oil change and inspection becomes a $450 service. If you call BMW NA they will give their stamp of approval. Call me crazy but I would like something in writing that spells all of this out. They used to do it and I fail to understand why they cannot do this now. I have no problem with the dealer making money but not by forcing me to do service not required or really necessary. At this point BMW NA is mum and all I have to rely on is the Internet. Yeah, that's a reasonable way to get information for a $20k purchase, through chat rooms and forums. Not like I would get any bad information from the Internet.
    Here is one for you.
    http://www.r1200gs.info/R1200GS-Main...-Schedules.pdf
    2008 HP2 Sport 10,000, 2008 R1200GSA 97,000, 1990 R100GSPD 100,000, 1986 K100RS 152,000

  4. #19
    Jack Herbst
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    Quote Originally Posted by PGlaves View Post
    My point was, and is, that BMW so far has been unable to come up with a fix for the strip problem. And that is true whether I like it or not (which I don't). But until I read about and see concrete information that leads me to believe they actually have a fix, I wouldn't throw any of my money at a second, or third, or sixth failure prone fuel strip. I would allow a warranty repair at their cost, but I wouldn't throw good money after bad buying stuff which has proven itself to be unable to work for very long.
    Well taken Paul. So far I have not paid for them. Warranty plus the two year parts warranty have kept me from reaching into my own pocket.

    This does not preclude the anger I have each time it fails or the six days I have wasted to get them replaced.

    I would guess it is cheaper for them to replace failed strips than to retrofit thousands and thousands of bikes with this problem. I believe this to be true with the failed final drives also.

    Fuel strip replacement out of pocket is just south of $400.

    Jack

  5. #20
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    BMW of North America, LLC
    300 Chestnut Ridge Road
    Woodcliff Lake, NJ 07675
    Call 1-800-831-1117 for Customer Relations

    Better than a class action

    Get as many disgruntled BMW riders as you can and ride to there corp headquarters with signs and loudspeakers and hopefully get media attention. Stay as long as you can.

    At least you'll get a ride out of the deal
    Anthony S.
    2012 R1200GS

  6. #21
    Registered User MOTOR31's Avatar
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    I seriously doubt you have a reasonable chance of getting a class action suit to accomplish much.

    Having said that, the solution to your problem is simple. You stop supporting BMW by buying another brand bike. It is simple, effective and less intrusive of requiring a lawyer. It also worked for me after riding the marque for over 3 decades.

    BMW is still stuck on stupid IMO for the idea that you are buying a "lifestyle" as opposed to a vehicle. They expect you to get all dewy eyed over the fact that it is German engineering with a roundel on top of it and accept the fact that they are putting out a bike that is maintenance intensive. In the club here it's called drinking the koolaid. Zere ist nein problem mit der motorad, yet zere will be a zolution for der nonexistink issue in a couple years like der non existink surge.

    Tired of the issues? Dump them and move on to something that is better suited for you. Eventually they may get the idea when sales drop.

    Suing them won't really get their attention. They have in the past already indicated they find the US to be a smaller part of their market. They also dropped the BMW system helmet for US sales over suit concerns years ago. You could buy them in Canada but not the US because they felt the market was not worth the trouble.
    DEFINITION OF A VETERAN A Veteran - whether active duty, retired, national guard or reserve - is someone who, at one point in their life, wrote a check made payable to "The United States of America", for an amount of "up to and including my life."
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  7. #22
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    Older yet

    Quote Originally Posted by PALADINWEST View Post
    Gee, that one is only 8 years old...new models don.t have head bolts tighten at 600 miles any more...plus a number of other outdated services. Try finding an HP2 schedule...that should be closer to the newer 2010-11 RT's.
    MOA #46783
    2014 R1200RT

  8. #23
    Motorradfahrer
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    Quote Originally Posted by sloride View Post
    BMW of North America, LLC
    300 Chestnut Ridge Road
    Woodcliff Lake, NJ 07675
    Call 1-800-831-1117 for Customer Relations

    Better than a class action

    Get as many disgruntled BMW riders as you can and ride to there corp headquarters with signs and loudspeakers and hopefully get media attention. Stay as long as you can.

    At least you'll get a ride out of the deal
    I called this number and actually got more upset after talking to them. No help at all. She said she would log the complaint. I asked if I would hear from anyone and she said they would follow up. I asked how they would follow up and she said they would follow up. So perhaps this explains why gray tanks are massing on the border of my property line.

  9. #24
    Registered User marcopolo's Avatar
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    Have you actually asked the service manager at the dealership where you bought the bike to print out all the latest maintenance schedules for you? If yes, what was his response. If no, I suggest that's where you should start. Don't ask for a verbal reply; ask for the maintenance schedules to be printed out (there's more than one, e.g., running-in check at +/- 1,000 km; BMW Service and BMW Inspection (one's every 10,000 km, the other's every 20,000 km); Annual service; and, there are also some that combine the Annual with either the "Inspection", or the "Service"). BMW Canada's website has schedules for most of the latest models available for download. That said, like those available on some dealer websites, some are out of date. Every time I have my bike serviced, I get a copy of the relevant maintenance schedule, duly completed by the tech.
    Mark
    2006 R1200RT

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by PGlaves View Post
    My point was, and is, that BMW so far has been unable to come up with a fix for the strip problem. And that is true whether I like it or not (which I don't). But until I read about and see concrete information that leads me to believe they actually have a fix, I wouldn't throw any of my money at a second, or third, or sixth failure prone fuel strip. I would allow a warranty repair at their cost, but I wouldn't throw good money after bad buying stuff which has proven itself to be unable to work for very long.
    I believe they went back to a float with the 2011 RT model.

  11. #26
    Registered User greenwald's Avatar
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    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by klumbsh1 View Post
    I believe they went back to a float with the 2011 RT model.
    Heard that rumor, but don't think so.

    Paging Paul Glaves to the white courtesy phone please?!
    Kevin Greenwald - Touring Tips Editor
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  12. #27
    On the road again! R80RTJohnny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marcopolo View Post
    Have you actually asked the service manager at the dealership where you bought the bike to print out all the latest maintenance schedules for you? If yes, what was his response. If no, I suggest that's where you should start. Don't ask for a verbal reply; ask for the maintenance schedules to be printed out (there's more than one, e.g., running-in check at +/- 1,000 km; BMW Service and BMW Inspection (one's every 10,000 km, the other's every 20,000 km); Annual service; and, there are also some that combine the Annual with either the "Inspection", or the "Service"). BMW Canada's website has schedules for most of the latest models available for download. That said, like those available on some dealer websites, some are out of date. Every time I have my bike serviced, I get a copy of the relevant maintenance schedule, duly completed by the tech.
    Very good advice. I'm having my bike serviced prior to heading to the rally and am confident that my tech will perform the appropriate service for the mileage.
    2008 R12RT (Blue)
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  13. #28
    not so retired henzilla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by klumbsh1 View Post
    I believe they went back to a float with the 2011 RT model.

    The online parts fiche for the '10 RT says the strip is up to 08/10 model...further down the page was this from 08/10...wouldn't it be nice if it was plug-n-play? # 2 is a FLOAT!
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by henzilla; 07-14-2011 at 03:16 AM. Reason: add info
    Steve Henson
    SABMWRA MOA Club#62's Flat Fixer/ current forum moderator
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  14. #29
    Still Wondering mika's Avatar
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    To some extent I share your frustration with BMW as a participant in the trend of businesses to limit or dumb down the information they are making available to consumers of their products. That said as a businessman I am frustrated with consumers that 'come to the table' threatening to sue.

    I sincerely doubt the ability of you to successfully launch a class action case. BMW Motorrad makes Riders manuals free in a download pdf format available to owners at

    http://www.bmw-motorrad.com/com/en/index.html

    You can purchase a printed copy through your dealer.

    Maintenance manual CDs may be purchased through your dealer. These will include service-and-maintenance schedules for you to follow and the information and instructions to help you do that work. It is my understanding that service-and-maintenance that become out of date can be purchased, at least that is my experience.

    For example you can search the parts fiche at http://www.maxbmwmotorcycles.com/fiche/fiche.aspx online.

    BWM is hero and villain depending on the day of the week. From a business standpoint customers are threatening to sue for not enough information, too much information and everything in between. My long term contention is that what ever your view of BMW collecting and making accurate information available is an opportunity for the MOA to deliver on the idea of being the 'essential accessory' for BMW motorcycle owners.
    Pass the mustard and UP THE REVOLUTION!

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  15. #30
    Jack Herbst
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    Quote Originally Posted by klumbsh1 View Post
    I believe they went back to a float with the 2011 RT model.
    Let's say they thought about it but didn't want to admit their previous mistake and go back to the original mechanical float.

    Sorry all you 2011RT drivers. No floating for you!

    Jack

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