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Thread: Crash Chronicles (Crashes and Near Misses)

  1. #106
    R1200RT Accept No Other Yammer's Avatar
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    Interesting

    Quote Originally Posted by bikerfish1100 View Post
    fwiw, weaving will not appreciably warm the tires to any greater degree than will riding in a straight line, most certainly not with only a 1km distance to get things going. if there was no other warm up generated- riding several miles, sitting in hot sun for a length of time, etc.- then those tires were functionally cold at the time of the crash.
    it's been mentioned twice now, so thought it prudent to dispel that notion.
    I have to say you have dispelled a myth for me. I always thought it helped. I will put that in the must remember file.

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  2. #107
    Registered User miairhead's Avatar
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    Tom
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  3. #108
    Registered User amiles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCKRider View Post
    My, yet another way to screw up with a ramp - and I thought I had all of them perfected! (See fairly recent "Don't Drop the Bike" thread for an article I wrote for the ON.)

    Sounds like you back the bike down the ramp with your rump in the saddle, feet paddling along. right hand on the front brake. Do you feel comfortable doing this if your ramp is wet? Is there a problem getting that last four inch push from the saddle? Don't mean to be critical - maybe your method works great in all weather conditions if the engine is off or the bike is in neutral until the front tire has cleared that edge. Just asking. We all need an all-weather game plan at home.

    And check out that "Don't Drop the Bike" thread and the subsequent comments. It may well save you, as a relatively new rider, from several other low speed drops that have nothing to do with ramps.
    Sorry to respond so late after the fact on the OP's thread, two points that I'd like to make:

    First: It is true that "warming up" an engine is for the most part unnecessary. However The machine needs to be in a balance of choke & warming (if applicable) so that when the operator starts off, the engine will not stall unexpectedly. Some have fallen from their mounts due to engine cut-out. Injected bikes probably are not of concern with this.

    Second: It is my understanding that additives in motor oil do not protect the engine as designed at lower than "normal" operating temperature. Clearances between engine parts are said to be less than optimum with a "cold" engine as well. When starting out with a cold engine it is wisest to "go easy on it" limiting RPM & acceleration until normal operating temperature is reached.

    I wonder if the rider courses cover maneuvering the machine, engine off rider on foot? Seems as though most of us have problems with this from time to time.

  4. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikerfish1100 View Post
    fwiw, weaving will not appreciably warm the tires to any greater degree than will riding in a straight line, most certainly not with only a 1km distance to get things going. if there was no other warm up generated- riding several miles, sitting in hot sun for a length of time, etc.- then those tires were functionally cold at the time of the crash.
    it's been mentioned twice now, so thought it prudent to dispel that notion.
    I agree, cold tires take at least five miles, to more like ten miles to come up to temp if the air temp is below 40 F. I found this out for real about four years back. Used my 94 RS to lead a demo bike ride at my local BMW dealer. Air temp was 35 on a bright sunny November day. Four miles from the dealership I made an easy 90 degree turn from one county highway to another, a turn I had done MANY times previously in warmer weather, and the front end totally washed out and I low sided the bike. Just cosmetic, ego and jacket damage. Picked up the bike and rode back to the shop.

    About 1.5 hours later I rode the exact same route. But took a laser thermometer reading of the front tire, reading about 30 F, center and side of the tread before riding out. Then after four miles I came to the same turn, and took readings again. The center of the tread had warmed to 53 F, but the side of the tread was still only 35 F. So in cool to cold temps figure ten miles of easy turns before asking much of your tires.

  5. #110
    Registered User ride57's Avatar
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    Well, I had a very near miss about 3 weeks ago. (1975 R75/6) I was going to work (Madigan Army Medical Center, Ft Lewis, WA) It was about 5am and raining. The speed limit is 35 and I was in 3rd at about 30mph. I was approaching a intersection and there was a pickup approaching the intersection from my left, and cars coming towards me. I rolled off the throttle and was slowing down, I saw the front of the pickup (on my left) dip down as he (or she) was coming to the stop sign. I then saw the front end pick up and the wheels never stop as they pulled in front of me.

    Since I was slowing down I covered the brake lever. When I saw the front end pick up, I started braking heavily. Then just as I was thinking " I am going to hit him", I felt the front tire lock up and start to skid. I started to fall to the left and stuck my left foot out and somehow, kept the bike upright. I felt a pop and a jolt of pain in my left knee. The truck kept going so I just headed to work. My knee was hurting so I went to the ER, then went back home.

    I saw one of the ortho Dr's who said I have a partial tear of the patella ligament (medial) and possibly the MCL. I also have some nerve damage as the outside of my knee has no feeling.

    I wear a white helmet, have a Tourmaster 2 piece (grey) so it has the sewn in reflectives and the headlight was on.

    The only thing I didn't do was the "weave" . Why? I don't know why I didn't do it. I have done it in the past and know it works as cars will hollywood stop and start to go, then come to a stop. So I know the weave works.

    So I think I could have done more to mitigate that "almost" accident. I didn't "weave" . Of course, if he wasn't even looking in my direction, then the weave would not have worked.

    So I hope someone else can learn from my mistake. The "weave" works.
    Doug
    1975 R75/6
    1997 Ducati 748/853

  6. #111
    Registered User dieselyoda's Avatar
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    Somebody on these forums says "UFDA" happens, my term is less politically correct.

    Quote Originally Posted by ride57 View Post
    The "weave" works.
    I've been riding for almost 40 years. Your description of your event is certainly not foreign to anyone who rides.

    I think of myself as a pretty smart guy and not smart enough to know everything so I took a beginners motorcycle course with me girlfriend last year. She is a beginner and I thought taking the motorcycle course together was better than dance lessons. I have to admit, I forgot a great deal and I'm glad I took the course.

    I've never heard the term "weave" before. I wanted to assume you were talking about collision avoidance techniques but I have a suspicion you are talking about something more specific. Collision avoidance techniques to me mean transitional braking and steering through with target fixation prevention. You know, don't ride into what you see but ride to where you want to be.

    I'd like to read your definition of the "weave".

    This is where my good inner voice says, "good it wasn't worse".

    Bad me says, "suck it up buttercup, it's only your knee and you have another one." I can say that with all sincerity and kindness because I'm Canadian and play hockey and Don Cherry is the next Messiah.

    Just kidding. I am glad you posted your comments and look to you sharing your opinions.

    This comment is appropriate of late, Merry Christmas and stay WARM.
    1997 R1100RT (Restored Basket Case) , 1981 KZ 440 LTD (Restored Basket Case)
    1986 K75S(the beutch), 1993 K1100RS (blown engine), 1997 Chev Short Box (4x4 with an LT1)
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  7. #112
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    dyoda- in this case, "weave" is nothing you were instructed on in your BRC class (or, at least it was not part of the approved curriculum), nor in that arts and crafts class you took one cold winter.
    he's talking about just weaving your front end around a bit to create some headlight movement, while still traveling in a straight line. sort of like the straight line weave you guys did in the BRC, but this would have been less dramatic. just some wiggley motion is all.

    yeah, it can increase your visibility, as getting the headlight to move around on a different plane will catch the eye better than a light (&f attached bike) that is just moving closer to you.
    Ride Safe, Ride Lots

  8. #113
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    This past summer I was commuting to work on VT 100 on a clear morning. It was typical Vermont Rush Minute traffic with about a dozen cars in front of me spaced 50 yards apart. I was tail end Charlie on my yellow GS with a flashing Brake! light and a pair of Skene P3 lights. I was wearing my red Stich onesie and a hi-vis Schuberth helmet. The line of traffic ahead of me stopped for a school bus; I stopped about 20 feet behind the last car hugging the right side of the lane.

    As the kids boarded the bus I noticed an older minivan approaching from behind at a pretty good clip. I kept an eye on the vehicle and tapped my brakes to get all those rear lights flashing. No change. By this time I could see the woman behind the wheel was looking down, not paying attention to her driving. I waved my arms over my head but she didn't notice. I slipped the GS into gear and angled my nose to the right. When she was a couple hundred feet behind me and still coming at around 50mph I accelerated quickly thru the front yard of the house I'd stopped in front of, the TKC 80s digging a huge trench across the lawn.

    The movement of my bike got the driver's attention and she slammed on the brakes, hitting the vehicle I had been behind. Minor damage to both vehicles resulted but had I still been there I would have been badly injured or even killed. She had been texting while driving.

    Of course I gave the troopers a very detailed eyewitness account. But the incident reinforced my belief that all the safety gear and hi-viz stuff in the world does not relieve me of personal responsibility for my own safety.

    Pete
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    '10 R1200GSA with Hannigan dual sport sidecar for rides with Barley

  9. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by glenfiddich View Post
    This past summer I was commuting to work on VT 100 on a clear morning. It was typical Vermont Rush Minute traffic with about a dozen cars in front of me spaced 50 yards apart. I was tail end Charlie on my yellow GS with a flashing Brake! light and a pair of Skene P3 lights. I was wearing my red Stich onesie and a hi-vis Schuberth helmet. The line of traffic ahead of me stopped for a school bus; I stopped about 20 feet behind the last car hugging the right side of the lane.

    As the kids boarded the bus I noticed an older minivan approaching from behind at a pretty good clip. I kept an eye on the vehicle and tapped my brakes to get all those rear lights flashing. No change. By this time I could see the woman behind the wheel was looking down, not paying attention to her driving. I waved my arms over my head but she didn't notice. I slipped the GS into gear and angled my nose to the right. When she was a couple hundred feet behind me and still coming at around 50mph I accelerated quickly thru the front yard of the house I'd stopped in front of, the TKC 80s digging a huge trench across the lawn.

    The movement of my bike got the driver's attention and she slammed on the brakes, hitting the vehicle I had been behind. Minor damage to both vehicles resulted but had I still been there I would have been badly injured or even killed. She had been texting while driving.

    Of course I gave the troopers a very detailed eyewitness account. But the incident reinforced my belief that all the safety gear and hi-viz stuff in the world does not relieve me of personal responsibility for my own safety.

    Pete
    Now THAT'S what I'm talkin' about!!

    very well played Pete.
    Ride Safe, Ride Lots

  10. #115
    Registered User AKsuited's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glenfiddich View Post
    But the incident reinforced my belief that all the safety gear and hi-viz stuff in the world does not relieve me of personal responsibility for my own safety.

    Pete
    +1

    Pete,

    Your successful avoidance of a serious wreck also demonstrates the importance of using mirrors to know what is going on around you at all times. Like fighter pilots, we need to have situational awareness and know what is happening on our "six."

    Good job, and keep the pics of Barley coming.

    Harry
    2003 R1150RT - Silver

  11. #116
    Registered User miairhead's Avatar
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    HGTV Star Bill Beckwith

    December 14, 2013 /24-7PressRelease/ -- Californians were saddened by the news that HGTV star and avid motorcyclist Bill Beckwith was killed in a San Francisco motorcycle accident in his neighborhood in early December 2013. A carpenter and co-host on "Curb Appeal," Beckwith was only 38 when he died from head injuries from the fatal crash in the Lower Haight area around 8:30 p.m. on a Monday evening.

    News reports suggest that the driver of the car may have been turning left in an intersection when he collided with Beckwith's cycle. Authorities are investigating.
    Tom
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  12. #117
    Cam Killer marchyman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dieselyoda View Post
    I've never heard the term "weave" before. I wanted to assume you were talking about collision avoidance techniques but I have a suspicion you are talking about something more specific. Collision avoidance techniques to me mean transitional braking and steering through with target fixation prevention. You know, don't ride into what you see but ride to where you want to be.

    I'd like to read your definition of the "weave".
    It's taught in the UK as the SMIDSY Swerve, sometimes the SMIDSY weave. SMIDSY is an acronym for Sorry Mate I Didn't See You.


  13. #118
    not so retired henzilla's Avatar
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    A lot of SMIDSY opportunities today Rode in to LoneStar BMW's open house amongst the weirdos in Longhorn Town. Forgot how much fun that is this time of year. ( Used to work in same area and commuted daily on the bike)


    I do the weave/h-bar dip or whatever it's called when I get that spider tingly sense...which in urban riding is regular with side streets and parking lots. Especially on our few bikes w/out the conspicuous triangle frontal array like the single small headlight /6. Heck, I even do it on the bikes that are all lit up...old habit to help add to my being seen by gazers. Had to not exaggerate the move today on the wet tar snakes and a almost done rear tire on the 12S I'm awake now!
    Last edited by henzilla; 12-15-2013 at 02:09 AM.
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  14. #119
    Registered User dieselyoda's Avatar
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    SMIDSY or Weave

    I got it.

    In my riding dynamics, I make myself big and this confirms I am correct. My girlfriend, a new rider, has been a passenger with me when I drive big rig. After the video and my comments, "where the F--- did he go?" when the boxes become invisible in the mirrors, confirms, use the picture. Stay active in your space and make sure they see you.

    I love to ride. I hate driving truck. It's bad enough with the four wheelers right up your behind and you loose them. Bikers, the pirates, they own the road and expect I should know that.

    SMIDSY or Weave should be mandatory for EVERYBODY.

    You can learn a lot on these forums............................................ ..........
    1997 R1100RT (Restored Basket Case) , 1981 KZ 440 LTD (Restored Basket Case)
    1986 K75S(the beutch), 1993 K1100RS (blown engine), 1997 Chev Short Box (4x4 with an LT1)
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  15. #120
    roamingbeemer roamingbeemer's Avatar
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    It was taught at a course I took BUT with the caveat to also be in a position to avoid if they still do not see you. Gotta know when to resort to avoidance strategy. Lane positioning can also have big impact on both visibility and avoidance strategy. I like the UK approach to educating riders about the real life limits of drivers. Of course the same education of drivers is necessary.

    I get heart burn when riders accuse drivers of in-attention without appreciating the limits and there are genuine drivers who are no different than us. IMO I do not hold drivers responsible for crashes if the motorcycle was traveling significantly above the expected speed. A motorcyclist killed himself into the side of my brothers truck but was over 2X the speed limit and going around a curve. It was the local policeman's son and guess who was the first responder. My brother was not held responsible but obviously felt terrible but just did not see him. My brother is also a long distance motorcyclist with a perfect driving record before and after this.

    I especially get heart burn with riders who talk and text while driving thinking they are safer than the people they disparage for doing the same. Apparently their multi tasking skills are super human but as a passenger with them I will testify they are not. I recently rode with a guy who I had to hold my tongue to not call him a hypocrit. I hope this is a minority of riders!!
    Seek Fun. "Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain--and most fools do" BF
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