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Thread: Electric reverse and or center stand?

  1. #1
    Rally Rat RTRandy's Avatar
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    Electric reverse and or center stand?

    True or false: The LT's have reverse and electric center stand. If true, is that standard or some kind of premium option? Didn't these show up in just the last few years?

    Either way I have't seen mention of either on the k1600's. Is the weight reduction or overall design that significant that it's no longer necessary?

    Just curious, especially for the GLT intended for two up touring.

  2. #2
    Registered User mneblett's Avatar
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    All K12LT's have reverse.

    All '05-on K12LT's have the electro-hydraulic centerstand.

    As has been posted several times, the K16 will not have either.

    The K16 is on the order of 100 lbs. lighter than the K12LT (GT a bit more, GTL a bit less). If you know the correct technique for using a centerstand, there should be no need for one on the K16 (not to mention that there is essentially no room under the K16 to stick a power centerstand in there, and for most folks it would be a *lot* of unncessary dead weight).

    On reverse, there is no room to do it in the K16. The K12LT reverse worked by removing 6th gear from the K12 transmission and inserting a displaceable gear drive which connects the back end of the starter motor to the tranny to drive the rear wheel backwards. If you look at the location of the starter motor and the arrangement of the geartrain in the K16, it's immediately obvious that such a solution is simply not possible. So we'll have to do what we've all done with our motorcycles for the past 100 years or so -- think about where we are about to park so we can get back out when we're ready to leave!
    Mark Neblett
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  3. #3
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    BMW could have engineered this in. They were concerned about price points; not rider satisfaction.
    '03 R1150R, '03 F650GS, '97DR200SE,'78 Honda CT-90, '77Honda CT-90

  4. #4
    Registered User marcopolo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acejones View Post
    BMW could have engineered this in. They were concerned about price points; not rider satisfaction.
    Even if they could have, I get the impression they were interested in designing a motorcycle and not a couch on wheels.
    Mark
    2006 R1200RT

  5. #5
    Registered User mneblett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acejones View Post
    BMW could have engineered this in. They were concerned about price points; not rider satisfaction.
    It's easy to wave your hand and make an assertion like this -- if it is that easy, tell us how you would do it.

    Of course, you have to do so within BMW's design goals -- lighter weight, compact transmission to have a narrow-waisted bike (to answer a constant criticism of their bikes as being tough for shorter-inseam folks to manage), etc.

    The point is, it's obvious that money wasn't the primary driver here. The arrangements of this engine/tranny make reverse virtually impossible without adding on a completely new set of components -- for which there is basically no room (at least without compromising width, or fuel tank volume, or (etc.). Near as I can tell from the pictures and the BMW assembly line videos showing the GT being built from engine to assembled bike, there's even less room under the tupperware for "stuff" than the K12LT.

    And contrary to the owner satifaction assertion, I believe that is *exactly* the reason there's no reverse, and likely the reason for no power centerstand: given the choice between a wider bike with reverse and the current narrow waist-permitted-by-the-narrow-tranny design, I'd wager their market research pushed then toward the greater customer comfort (particularly where the GTL, being a lot lighter than the K12LT, has less of an inherent need for a reverse).

    As to the centerstand, I have a pic of the underside of the bike on my screen, and I challenge you to tell us how to fit a power stand under there -- suspension and catalytic converters fill the space. The only option I see is to lengthen the wheelbase (on an already long wheelbase bike), but that brings its own set of problems.

    As any product design engineer knows, *every* single design is is the product of a set of design objectives, formed into a final product by a set of design constraints -- in other words, every design is the result of the compromises needed to meet the design objectives. The bike we are receiving from BMW is the best they could do, considering *all* of the design objectives and constraints -- not just a couple features viewed in isolation.

    So, *could* BMW have designed in reverse and a power centerstand? Absolutely. But I'm *really* happy they didn't, as the design comrpomises required to get these things added on would have greatly compromised the overall design -- all for features that aren't really necessary for this bike.

    Ok, rant off -- I just couldn't stand leaving such a wrong-headed comment about this design as driven by a money-grubbing, "screw-the-customer" view of life, when it was so plainly driven by the need to design the best overall package for the customers, even if that meant leaving off the hologram-generator and anti-missle phased array radar.
    Mark Neblett
    Fairfax, VA
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  6. #6
    Rally Rat RTRandy's Avatar
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    What !!! No hologram-generator and anti-missle phased array radar?

    I really hope to own a 1600GT one day. The reason I asked the question was my sense that the bike's performance and weight would be deminished with those features.

    Probably not a fair comparison to the LT other than it's ability to carry two up comfortably, but I had heard of too many parking lot tip overs of LT's. My old mindset kicked in, but this bike is truly a marvel and a game changer.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acejones View Post
    BMW could have engineered this in. They were concerned about price points; not rider satisfaction.
    For some of us price points IS part of customer satisfaction.

    For others simplicity and reliability is part of customer satisfaction.

    I think they made good tradeoffs. Now if only that lottery investment pays off.

  8. #8
    Registered User naddy100's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mneblett View Post
    ...even if that meant leaving off the hologram-generator and anti-missle phased array radar.
    Available after-market from AeroStich. I'm certain I've seen it in their catalog.

    Noel

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