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Thread: Ride fast! Take training!

  1. #1
    sMiling Voni's Avatar
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    Ride fast! Take training!


    I knew it!

    New research using a world leading motorcycle simulator to analyse rider behaviour has proved that safer doesn't necessarily mean slower and that formal advanced training for bikers can demonstrate improved safety on our roads.
    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...1130100530.htm

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    For years I have found when I ride fast I am more intune with my riding. I ride safer and better. When I slow down and look at the cows I find my mind and bike wondering. I have also found some days I am in the groove and other days off the mark .
    Mike

  3. #3
    Midnight Rider 41077's Avatar
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    But will the officer accept that as an excuse for going 60 in a 50?

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    Benchwrenching PGlaves's Avatar
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    The three groups studied were newish riders, experienced riders, and riders with advanced training. The group that excelled was the group with advanced training.

    The important finding was that experience alone is not sufficient - it was the advanced training that made the difference.

    The old bad habits - "one year of experience repeated 20 times" story - in my opinion.

    What I'd like to know is what constitutes advanced training in the UK.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
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    High & Dry statdawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PGlaves View Post
    What I'd like to know is what constitutes advanced training in the UK.
    We need to get the Lockster active again, he had 8 levels of advanced rider training in the UK. Most of it was for Law Enforcement.

    I know that if you are taking a bike from the BMW dealer in Dublin you must wear all that gear plus a back brace, so lets say that is basic.
    If one cannot command attention by one's admirable qualities one can at least be a nuisance

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    For information about "Advanced Training" in the UK:

    http://www.advanced-motorcycle-train...uk/Courses.asp

    My personal observation is that riding in the UK is potentially more dangerous than riding in the USA, as a result of factors such as more congestion and narrower roads in the UK. So, over the years various entities have develope rider training schemes to help get riders up to speed. There are mulitple paths to getting licenses, and various levels of testing and instruction, including in-traffic.

    There seems to have been much more--and much more open--discussion and planning for rider training, testing, and licensing, than in the USA. One big advantage in the UK is not having a lawyer behind every bush.

    I'm a firm believer that training can equip a motorcyclist to better manage the risks. It may be difficult to admit, but USA motorcyclists are generally very ignorant of important skills, very callous about the risks, and very disinterested in taking any "advanced" training courses. Fortunately, BMW riders seem to be much more knowledgable and skillful than average, as measured by our interest in courses and skills seminars at our rallies.

    One big problem with finding any "advanced" training in the USA is that the available curricula have been controlled almost exclusively by one foundation, with the focus almost entirely on beginner skills. One possible bright spot is the report that the big guys have come up with a new "advanced" course that might prove to be beneficial for experienced riders. If we look to the Brits for what an "advanced" course might contain, we'll find a lot more about managing traffic hazards, and less of a focus on cornering.

    pmdave

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    As already noted, motorcyclist training in the UK has historically been encouraged by law enforcement, starting with the concept of Roadcraft developed for police motor officers, and then leading to courses where police techniques are offered to the general public.

    http://www.advancedmotorcycletraining.com/

    In the USA, a motor officer in South Carolina, Mark Brown, has taken some advanced UK training and has been attempting to make it available here in the USA. He is not only working with the SC police to do something, but also has his own training company. His email is: motomark1@nc.rr.com

    Mark was invited to the RA rally two years ago at Canaan Valley WV, and did some short seiminars.

    In the past, the MOA Foundation, and MOA instructors, have typically focused on MSF courses such as the ERC. We really missed a good opportunity to have TEAM Oregon do some training at the Redmond Rally. Perhaps in the future we will see an expansion of what's offered at our rallies, perhaps arranging to have Mark, or Bret Tkacs, or Lee Parks offer courses other than what's available from MSF. AT the risk of getting blowtorched, I suggest that we've been stuck in the MSF rut too long.

    pmdave

  8. #8
    Back in the Saddle mcmxcivrs's Avatar
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    I've been focusing my training on how to ride my GS slow.

    I have thought about the fast training, and do practice some skills.
    Ed Miller, Calgary, AB
    2008 K1200GT, 2009 F800GS
    I can't wait to retire and have a fixed income. The one I have now is always broke.

  9. #9
    Riding where it's hot! AZ-J's Avatar
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    I do my really fast training on the track, and keep it 5-15 over speed limit on the street, as 20 and over here is criminal speeding. I see enough cars and bikes doing that all the time on the street.
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    is this type of advanced motorcycle simulator available in the USA at a cost that many could afford? If so where, I would be interested in booking some time on it. I mean the pictures of street scenarios on the MSF site are very good and I have shown them to many people, but a simulator to put you in realistic life threatening situations WITHOUT the chance of bodily harm would be wonderful and possibly life saving.

    Rod

  11. #11
    sMiling Voni's Avatar
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    At the 2010 Rally in Redmond you would have had a chance to try the BMW MOA's Smart Trainer sponsored by the BMW MOA Foundation.

    http://www.harborsportscycle.com/cus...dasmarttrainer

    http://www.navy.mil/search/display.asp?story_id=34766

    Look for it at a rally near you.

    Voni
    sMiling
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  12. #12
    Riding where it's hot! AZ-J's Avatar
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    The AZBeemers have it for the May 2011 Roadrunner Rally.
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  13. #13
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    By all means, take a few spins on the "Smart Trainer", but realize it's a tool for reacting to street hazards--not a motorcycle simulator. The best part is that you can afford to make mistakes, since you won't have to endure any road rash. Just reboot and try to learn from your errors.

    During my career at The Boeing Company, I spend many years in Flight Training, and many hours in full flight simulators (shooting video). I was occasionally able to sneak some motorcycle gurus into a simulator so they could experience how realistic a good simulator can be. Honda attempted to build a motorcycle simulator, but gave up after spending a few million. Eventually they settled on the "sit down" trainer the MSF calls the "Smart Trainer". You sit on a seat with a pair of handlebars and a video screen in front of you. The training is to spot hazards ahead and react. Since it's not nearly as sophisticated as a flight simulator, it takes a while to get used to what you're looking at.

    When I first rode the Smart Trainer, I was put off by the controls. It didn't countersteer, didn't brake smoothly, etc. I crashed when I squeezed the front brake as I normally would. The computer faulted me for not enough rear brake. I was also put off by the use of the handlebar controls for various computer functions. But once I got over my focus on the controls, I could appreciate that it provides lessons in situational awareness.

    My advice: don't get hung up on the limitations of the device--such as not countersteering or not braking as you would expect. Just ride it and see what you can learn. Perhaps one day we'll have more sophisticated riding simulators, but in the meanwhile this is available, and should be in use at various rallies--including the MOA International.

    pmdave

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    Quote Originally Posted by PT9766 View Post
    Advanced riding courses in the UK are very often based on the book "Motorcycle Roadcraft - the Police Rider's Handbook" published by Her Majesty's Stationery Office.

    I have used various editions of this book since 1966 (the 1963 edition) to refresh my riding skills and improve my riding habits each spring by a read-through and a few self-training rides. I believe the latest edition is 1996 and it is a great advance - as one can imagine - on the 60's version.

    It teaches a "system of motorcycle control" , observation of road situations, conditions and countermeasures which has stood me in good stead and kept me away from any motorcycle road accidents for over 40 years.

    PT9766
    After a trip to the UK and Europe in 1980, I ordered a copy of Roadcraft. I've got a "late" edition from 1979. I'm assuming the book has been updated since then. We Yanks have to translate from English to Amurikun, ("overtaking" = passing), and mentally reverse the pictures left-right.

    The book is about half motorcycle control skills, and half situational awareness.

    pmdave

  15. #15
    Midnight Rider 41077's Avatar
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    Riding slow caused bike drop

    This morning after riding to breakfast I was putting out of the parking lots curved drive and turned into the curve sharper than I intended. It was cold, tires were cold, I was not moving fast enough to keep the bike off of the still slick outer tire edges where the chicken strips are and bam i'm down thinking what just happened while watching my bike slide away from me. I got a bruised finger and ego. Guess I know what I'll be working on this winter. I normally would have been moving faster and more alert, too relaxed. Could have been worse, had all gear on. Anyone have a windshield for an old (20 yr) Air Balance Parabellum Fairing?

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    Last edited by 41077; 12-05-2010 at 10:51 PM. Reason: added pic

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