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  1. #1
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    Snotgnott

    quote from a different thread:

    "Saw a cruiser rider in the Cities yesterday dressed in NOTGNOTT"

    I propose this be "So, None Of The Gear, None Of The Time (SNOTGOTT)" or perhaps:

    SNOTFGNOTT.

    However, I confess. I rode the half-mile from the Comfort Suites to the rally wearing street shoes, jacket liner, gloves, and helmet. OK, I was on a three-wheeler, but I certainly didn't walk the talk. And I saw more than a few BMW riders in typical SNOTGOTT riding around Redmond.

    Question: were any BMW riders injured during the rally while riding around the vicinity in SNOTGOTT? EMTs, please report in.

    pmdave

  2. #2
    John. jstrube's Avatar
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    I made a beer run in shorts, T-shirt, helmet & gloves... I did swap up my Tevas for some closed toed shoes though...

  3. #3
    Cannonball Rider #52 darrylri's Avatar
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    From Visian's picture show:



    (Actually, I had just finished washing the bike and rode it back to the Beef Barn where the Vintage Display was held.)
    --Darryl Richman, forum liaison
    http://darryl.crafty-fox.com

  4. #4
    advrider.com
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    Cool picture.

  5. #5
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    Daryll,

    Shouldn't you be wearing lederhosen?

    pmdave

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    Cannonball Rider #52 darrylri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmdave View Post
    Daryll,

    Shouldn't you be wearing lederhosen?

    pmdave
    Dave, lederhosen would CYA a lot better than those slacks.

    But hey, how about that head turn?

    --Darryl Richman, forum liaison
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  7. #7
    It is what it is. Bud's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarrylRi View Post
    From Visian's picture show:



    (Actually, I had just finished washing the bike and rode it back to the Beef Barn where the Vintage Display was held.)
    Well, your excuse sounds just like someone saying "Honest officer, I was just helping that sheep over the fence."

    Great picture.
    I used to post here, but now I don't.

  8. #8
    Cannonball Rider #52 darrylri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIBUD View Post
    Well, your excuse sounds just like someone saying "Honest officer, I was just helping that sheep over the fence."

    Great picture.


    Long ago, when my wife used to ride on the bike, we were touring the UK. She stopped me because she saw, up on the bluff next to the road we were on, a sheep stuck in the barbed wire fence. She got off the bike and, still wearing ATG, started climbing up the bluff. As she finally got close, I saw the sheep turn its head to look at her, then, frightened by the approaching spacewoman, stopped scratching its butt on the barbed wire and ran off.

    No good deed goes unpunished.


    Now, as to the excuse part: no excuse intended. If the bike had stalled in that turn or I had a collision with a car or bike during the couple hundred yards back to the barn, there's no question that I would have at a minimum been scraped up. People have been killed falling off of a stopped bike, too.

    But because we want to continue riding for a long time, we try to manage our risk. It's impossible to eliminate it and, because different people have different risk thresholds, they will take on more or less risk. When most of the population thinks you're taking on too much risk, they make whatever you're doing illegal. It seems to me that the trick is to keep most of the population from thinking about how much risk I'm taking on. Part of that is by managing the risk well, and part of it is not calling attention to it. Being lucky helps, too, but that's hard to predict.
    --Darryl Richman, forum liaison
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  9. #9
    Kbiker BCKRider's Avatar
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    I too was at the Redmund rally and the only time I rode with less than ATGATT (by the way what does that third letter T refer to, Dave?) was when I just donned helmet and boots to get from by camping spot to the tire vendor and back. And it scared me a bit.

    The truth is that, after about 14 years of riding and two accidents - one of which kept me from getting to Gillette in 2008 - getting on the bike scares me. Fortunately, that feeling quickly goes away, replaced with all the thoughts of how I can ride safely and often fairly quickly. The training and the often-reread books by Mr. Hough renew my feeling of competence.

    I am definitely a ATGATT person. If I can't find enough time to also cruise some backroads after doing some errands in the little town only 4 miles away, I take the car. I just won't ride without earplugs, helmet, long trousers held in place by long socks, leather trousers with suspenders, a jacket that lets the air flow with protection in case of a crash, riding boots and gloves, and my prescription glasses with magnetic sunglass attachment. And that is when the temperature is warm to hot. (I also have an electric jacket and gloves, bought at the rally, to extend my riding season.)

    For me, donning all this gear not only makes for a more comfortable ride, it also reminds me that what I am about to do is dangerous. But I agree with Dave that what is INSIDE your head is what prevents accidents. The gear does minimize the damage to your body when things go wrong. And that does happen on occasion to very aware riders.
    Doug
    1992 K100RS

  10. #10
    Cage Rattler wezul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmdave View Post
    However, I confess. I rode the half-mile from the Comfort Suites to the rally wearing street shoes, jacket liner, gloves, and helmet. OK, I was on a three-wheeler, but I certainly didn't walk the talk. And I saw more than a few BMW riders in typical SNOTGOTT riding around Redmond.
    Mr. David,
    With all due respect. And I mean that, you are rapidly approaching if not already an icon. It's a choice. Perhaps not the most intelligent choice but in this case I have to say that the only one who would be affected is the rider. I take hops on my Vespa ET4 and seldom do I go ATGATT. So that being the case, does one get condemned or a temporary reprieve?

  11. #11
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    Well, I think there are very few of us who can do what we want with impunity. Whatever we do affects other people. Even if we don't have friends, family, co-workers, etc. who care about us, the "state" will send out public resources in the event we are injured.

    If we crash, and we can't sneak away, the crash affects the statistics, which affect our insurance premiums, political interference, et al. If we're injured and get hauled off to the ER, we run up medical bills. If we have medical insurance, that contributes to rising insurance premiums. And if I manage to bonk myself in a fatal way, there's a lot more bureacratic stuff that comes into play, plus other little niceties such as funerals, memorial services, and tombstones.

    So, yes, I feel it's my choice to ride with less than ATTGATT, but I have to consider who else I'm affecting with my decision. It's not an easy choice, because putting on the full armor on a hot day for a short ride seems ludicrous. On the other hand, most crashes occur in just the same situations as riding the half mile to the rally. On the road, at speed, I wear ATTGATT, not out of fear of abrasions and contusions, but because it's more comfortable being protected from wind, sun, etc.

    I suggest we take a closer look at the need for riding gear, and make some conscious decisions about what we wear, when, and where. I'm of the opinion that what counts is having the mental and physical skills to avoid crashes, rather than being prepared to survive an unpredictable crash. So, when I see a rider wearing SNOTGOTT, I watch for indications he/she understands the risks. Based on the ongoing attitudes about risk I normally see amoung BMW riders, I have some faith that we know what we're doing, gear or no.

    pmdave

  12. #12
    Cage Rattler wezul's Avatar
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    To be honest, when I ride the "real" motorcycles (I have two) I at very least am in helmet, gloves, jacket and boots. Seldom with the pants.
    But I get it Dave, I don't want to drive up others insurance premiums nor unnecessarily tax any areas EMT facilities.

    So I am on "double secret" hyper alert when I am "dressed down".
    But if you think people do not see motorcycles, you should try it sometime on a scooter.

    Be safe, be well.

  13. #13
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    I don't profess to have this all figured out. Back in the days when I was an instructor, the absolute dogma was ATTGATT, and that meant putting everything on just to ride across the practice range, or across the street for gas.

    But over the years I've come to realize that in terms of injury protection, even the best gear is not very good. Yes, I realize that sliding down the pavement in leathers is a lot less likely to result in some doc picking tar and rocks out of my skin than if I hit the ground in street pants.

    But the human body is just not designed to take sudden blows and tumbles. You can die just slipping on a banana peel and hitting your head on the sidewalk. The very best helmets made are good for attenuating maybe 18 or 20 mph impacts. Of course, motorcyclists most often bounce and slide rather than come to sudden halts against concrete walls. Having gotten used to wearing a helmet, I would not ride the street without one, even at slow speeds.

    But my point is, over the years we've been trained and cajoled to believe in the importance of ATTGATT, when what's INSIDE my skull appears to be the critical component of my injury protection.

    Thinking back to Redmond, I believe I was compensating for the reduced protective gear by watching more carefully for hazards. Or, maybe I'm just HOPING I was.

    When I see riders with bare skin hanging out, my initial thought is that they are foolish. But on second thought, I usually take a closer look to see if there is any indication they know what they are doing. What I've noticed over the years is that those who don't seem to know are often those who don't wear gear. To put this another way, maybe it's not the lack of gear that kills them, but the lack of mental skills.

    pmdave

  14. #14
    Cage Rattler wezul's Avatar
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    Or the lack of cycling skills, period.
    Like I said, I get it. So if you want to be stupid, I guess you get what you get.
    Looks like Darryl was on a track or in a lot. Either way, he was stylin'!

    Got the noggin' in a box 99% of the time, best you all out there do the same, like Dave says.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmdave View Post
    ...the absolute dogma was ATTGATT...
    I'm not fond of dogma, absolute or otherwise. Choices don't usually consist of easy-to-pick-from blacks and whites. Instead, there are varying shades of gray with valid arguments on both sides muddying the picture.

    Riding motorcycles is an exercise in risk analysis. ATTGATT or not, it's a hobby fraught with possible dangers. There are certainly some easy-to-do things, like wearing a helmet and jacket, to reduce the chances of serious injury. But being dogmatic about full ATTGATT attire (pants, gloves, boots, helmet, jacket, etc.) just to ride a couple of blocks to the post office might be taking things a bit far.

    If someone is that worried about being injured in a crash, a motorcycle just might not be the best personal choice in transportation. I mean, it seems a bit neurotic to worry incessantly about full safety gear, then ride around town on the most unsafe legal vehicle imaginable.

    Being careful, taking basic safety precautions, having fun and doing it all in moderation has always worked best for me — and that applies to more things in life than just riding motorcycles.

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