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Thread: Dyna beads R1200GS

  1. #46
    Registered User stkmkt1's Avatar
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    That's it. I'm sending this one to Mythbusters!
    '09 BMW 1200 GSA, 2013 BMW 700GS, 2000 Goldwing SE, '09' V Star 950, '09 Honda Rebel,
    '77 Honda 750A. Holding at six til I get new garage built - need more room for more bikes!

  2. #47
    It is what it is. Bud's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tommcgee View Post
    If you're gonna use them, keep a tire valve tool in your toolkit. This picture is from a friend. The same thing happened to him twice.

    That is why your valve stem CAP is considered the primary seal. Most folks don't know that and don't give much thought when they have one go missing.

    OTOH If the valve stem was up, I doubt the beads would have been blown thru the valve.
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  3. #48
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    Pouring in some dynabeads just sounds so easy. Curious, is there any motorcycle manufacturer that uses them? No, why not? Is there any motorcycle tire manufacturer that has advised to do away with weights, use beads instead? Is there any motorcycle racing team that uses dynabeads rather than balancing their wheel/tires conventionally? Many times races are won and lost due to which rider has "the most tire remaining". If dynabeads extended tire life even a few percent as they claim there'd not be any team that could *not* afford to use them.

  4. #49
    Unfunded content provider tommcgee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ridewv View Post
    Pouring in some dynabeads just sounds so easy. Curious, is there any motorcycle manufacturer that uses them? No, why not? Is there any motorcycle tire manufacturer that has advised to do away with weights, use beads instead?
    There are some old threads here about tire companies that will void your warranty if you use beads or liquids in your tires.
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  5. #50
    Curmudgeon in training alzyck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ridewv View Post
    ... Is there any motorcycle racing team that uses dynabeads rather than balancing their wheel/tires conventionally? Many times races are won and lost due to which rider has "the most tire remaining". If dynabeads extended tire life even a few percent as they claim there'd not be any team that could *not* afford to use them.
    I suppose it could be because they're not recommended for that application. From the dynabeads FAQ...

    Can I use Dyna Beads for motorcycle road racing?

    No. The inner liner compound of motorcycle road racing tires is too soft to allow Dyna Beads to perform properly. (this does not apply to off-road motorcycle racing)
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  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by alzyck View Post
    I suppose it could be because they're not recommended for that application. From the dynabeads FAQ...

    Can I use Dyna Beads for motorcycle road racing?

    No. The inner liner compound of motorcycle road racing tires is too soft to allow Dyna Beads to perform properly. (this does not apply to off-road motorcycle racing)
    The big tire manufacturers exhaust a lot of money and resources in developing tires that'll get them to the podium. Seems like a company such as Michelin could just develop a race tire with a firmer inner liner compound so they could start using dynabeads? Or maybe it's just possible the R&D departments of Michelin, Bridgestone, Honda, Suzuki, Ducati, etc, etc, know something that the promoter of Dynabeads does not.

  7. #52
    Curmudgeon in training alzyck's Avatar
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    Those are a couple pretty good points. It raises a couple questions for me...

    Quote Originally Posted by ridewv View Post
    Seems like a company such as Michelin could just develop a race tire with a firmer inner liner compound so they could start using dynabeads?
    Lot's of things "seem" like it should be one way or another. For example (outside of motorcycles), it "seems" to me that bringing together the full force of the government, world wide experts in petroleum engineering, thousands of people, yada, yada, we should be able to stop an oil leak in the Gulf in less than 90 days. Just because it "seems" so, doesn't make it so.

    So my question is, does it "seem" to you that the tire mfgs could develop the tire you suggested because you have a lot of experience with rubber compounds used in tires and you're going through a process of thinking "If compound x, then A happens. If compound y, then b happens?" That would be good to know. Or does it "seem" that way to you because you just kind of said "hey, why not, so it must be possible"?

    Quote Originally Posted by ridewv View Post
    Or maybe it's just possible the R&D departments of Michelin, Bridgestone, Honda, Suzuki, Ducati, etc, etc, know something that the promoter of Dynabeads does not.
    Could it be they know that the dynamics of race bike operating at near the limits of it's stability require a lot different set of performance factors than a touring bike at highway speeds?

    A Piper Arrow and an F-16 have a lot in common, but they have a lot different also. I'd bet the R&D departments at Piper aren't applying all the principles of the F-16 because it's over kill. And the F-16 group probably isn't looking at the Piper Arrow saying "Hey, check out that wing geometry." They both have different performance requirements. That doesn't make either one invalid for it's own environment.

    The discussion about dynabeads is turning out to be like zinc content in oil and motorport kevlar. I don't have a vested interest in if anyone uses dynabeads or not, but if we're going to have the discussion, let's at least debate apples and apples.

    Ride safe.
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  8. #53
    Unfunded content provider tommcgee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alzyck View Post
    I don't have a vested interest in if anyone uses dynabeads or not, but if we're going to have the discussion, let's at least debate apples and apples.
    Now there's an idea. Has anyone tried apples?
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  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by alzyck View Post
    ....Could it be they know that the dynamics of race bike operating at near the limits of it's stability require a lot different set of performance factors than a touring bike at highway speeds?


    The discussion about dynabeads is turning out to be like zinc content in oil and motorport kevlar. I don't have a vested interest in if anyone uses dynabeads or not, but if we're going to have the discussion, let's at least debate apples and apples.

    Ride safe.
    I understand where your coming from. But could it be that since Dynabeads don't work at slow speeds, and they don't work at higher speeds, they may not work *well* at other speeds also? MCN says they don't work. All manufacturers of motorcycles and motorcycle tires do not use them, do not recommend that we use them, and I understand in some cases specifically instruct to not use them.

    It's almost seems like STP all over again.

  10. #55
    Striper55
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    Thanks

    As an update.......I am trying them...and have noticed no appreciable nor "provable" difference. Thanks for all your comments.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by ridewv View Post
    ... could it be that since Dynabeads don't work at slow speeds, and they don't work at higher speeds, they may not work *well* at other speeds also? MCN says they don't work. All manufacturers of motorcycles and motorcycle tires do not use them, do not recommend that we use them, and I understand in some cases specifically instruct to not use them. ...
    Who claims they don't work at high speed? I can see why they're not a good match for racing but IMO it's for other reasons. BTW there are a lot of things that the manufacturers don't recommend. Nearly everything, in fact. Big difference between 'not recommend' and 'recommend against'. BMW has hardly ever recommended a single aftermarket item. Techron, a long time ago I think. You sure won't see many companies recommending tire plugs or patches. Or aftermarket windshields, driving lights, etc. If you're waiting for a recommendation from BMW, you might as well unsubscribe from this thread now.
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  12. #57
    TravelsWithBarley.com
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    Because of the doubts raised in this thread I went with lead weights yesterday when my Shinko 705 delaminated after 6700 miles. It took 2.25 oz on either side of the spoked rim. Rode home. Felt great. Marked the weight location with a grease pencil and removed the weights. Went for a ride and definitely noticed a bit of pogo activity back there. Back home, I added two oz of Dynabeads and took another test ride. Smooth as can be.

    I don't know how or why they work, but they seem to make a difference on my GS.

    In a humorous aside, the tire delaminated when I was just a few hundred yards from a Harley dealer. I pulled the rear wheel off, had my wife bring the spare, and I walked into the Harley dealer asking if they would at least break the bead for me so I could spoon off the tire. Not a problem, they said. They'd mount the new tire for me. So I wandered around their immaculate showroom in my one piece Stitch, all the Harley riders staring at me like I was some sort of alien. I looked at all the bikes in the showroom and really tried to like them, but all I could think was "Holy cow, look at all that chrome I'd have to clean!"

    About half an hour later the service manager and owner of the dealership approach me spewing apologies right and left. "Sir, we're terribly sorry but we scratched your rim." They escorted me into their immaculate service bay and pointed to a tiny dimple on the edge of the spoked rim. It looked like someone had poked the metal with a pencil. "That's it?" I asked. "Are you sure it wasn't there when I brought it in?"

    So there I am, staring at this tiny blemish that had given them so much grief, thinking I live on a dirt road and just assume dings and scratches are part of life, and they are shaking my hand and thanking me for being so understanding and forgiving.

    So I left, thinking what great folks they are even if they do dress a little odd. It made me want to add SAE tools to my panniers so I could return the favor someday alongside some remote road.

    Pete
    '07 R1200GS for solo rides
    '10 R1200GSA with Hannigan dual sport sidecar for rides with Barley

  13. #58
    Curmudgeon in training alzyck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ridewv View Post
    ..But could it be that since Dynabeads don't work at slow speeds...
    It's not that they don't work at slow speeds. It's that they're not necessary at slow speeds. The wheel's out of balance, not out of round. The forces caused by the imbalance at slow speeds are so small that the wheel isn't rotating out of balance. That's why the beads are evenly distributed around the wheel at slow speeds.

    BTW, even though I like the beads, I don't think they're perfect. You have to be careful with the type of roadside tire repair you use. If you use tire ropes with rubber cement, you need to be careful. If you roll the tire before the cement dries, the beads will stick to the glue on the inside of the tire. I've been using the Neely ropes. They don't require the glue (and I think it gives a better repair).

    Ride safe
    Last edited by alzyck; 06-28-2010 at 01:06 PM.
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  14. #59
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    This thread is getting funny.

    Some apparently want to put stuff in a tire that interferes with most normal plug methods, can cause valve leaks and based on what I've seen from removal by others, grinds hell out of the inside of the tire.

    All to do what? Fix a balance issue?

    Why not just balance the tire properly?

    And throw those Shinkos in the trash pit. Over 2 oz to balance a bike tire is ridiculous. So far, nothing on my RT has needed even close to 1 oz and 2 oz is more than on any of the 17 and 18 inch tires on my autos. If you speak to enough folks at bike and car places who mount tires you will find out that Michelins lead the pack for needing the least weight and having the fewest out of the factory problems re constructions, roundness, etc but many others are also pretty good. (Not surprising- Michelin has typically been the industry leader in tire manufacturing machinery and methods- they invented the modern tire "mini-plant" design, for example. And no, I don't use Michelins on everything or have any direct connection to the firm)

    The idea of getting uniform wear on a tire across all surfaces is a great goal but not always possible, especially when tire rotation can't be part of the maintenance. Typically, bad owner habits such as low inflation, poor mechanical maintenance, etc contribute but so do riding habits, tread design, road surfaces and rubber compounds. The first line of defense is keep recommended (usually toward high end) pressures in tires at all times. Harbor Freight has a pancake compressor on sale with a coupon in many bike mags for $40 so there in no excuse not to have one in your garage! That's the first place to spend $ for tire maintenance. For convenience I recommend fitting one of the high accuracy track style inflation gages to it but that's not required- any ACCURATE (meaning properly calibrated and reproducible) gage will do.

    Riders, especially tourers, can put tires through extremes during short periods without monitoring pressures. At the track, tires are checked several times a day but a touring rider may start on cold damp roads in the early morning and be on really toasty asphalt by afternoon without any thought to impact on tire wear or pressures, even though tread temps might be 80 degrees different in only a few hours.

    If the beads as shown by data extended tire mileage for properly inflated tires they might be worth the possible problems but otherwise why mess with them? What is the benefit that is not more readily obtained by traditional methods?

  15. #60
    Curmudgeon in training alzyck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by racer7 View Post
    This thread is getting funny.

    Some apparently want to put stuff in a tire that interferes with most normal plug methods, can cause valve leaks and based on what I've seen from removal by others, grinds hell out of the inside of the tire.

    All to do what? Fix a balance issue?
    ....
    ....

    If the beads as shown by data extended tire mileage for properly inflated tires they might be worth the possible problems but otherwise why mess with them? What is the benefit that is not more readily obtained by traditional methods?
    Paraphrasing, you don't use dynabeads because you think they're a PIA. At least that makes sense.

    I didn't go back and re-read all 59 posts, but the argument about dynabeads hasn't been they were a pain. It's been that they couldn't possibly work because somehow they would have to defy the laws of physics. That's just not true.

    Over a couple sets of tires, the biggest positive impact I've seen with dynabeads has been on the front tire. Here are my simple data points. I was running BT-020's (I just switched to PR2's). My first set of BT-020's were balanced by the dealer using weights. They felt balanced on the road, but the front only went about 6,500 miles before it was so badly cupped it needed to be replaced. Looking for a solution to cupping is how I found dynabeads. My second set of BT-020's used dynabeads instead of weights. I replaced the second set with 10K miles on them (with the PR2's) in prep for a long trip. I check inflation daily and ran both sets at 36/42. No cupping on the dynabead tire and the front looked like it could go another 2K miles. 12K vs. 6.5K seems pretty good to me, but it's a small sample.

    Over the last 5 years (three bikes), I'm thinking I averaged a flat I needed to repair on the road (always on the rear) about every third set of tires. I've gone away from the glue ropes, but for me, waiting for glue to dry once every three sets of tires seems small. If I had more flats it might be a bigger deal.

    I also didn't see the inside tire grinding you mentioned. I kept the weighted, worn out set of BT-020's to practice plugging and compared them with the dynabead tires to see if grinding was an issue. There's two liners on the inside of the BT-020's. The inner liner that everyone talks about and then a coating on top of that used to allow the tire to pop off the mold easier. Some of the lubricating liner came off with the beads, but I didn't see any excessive wear on the inner liner. The pavement wore down the outside of the tire way, way faster than anything the dynabeads did to the inside. Again, my experience on a small sample.

    FOR ME (notice the emphasis), the little bit of extra pain needed to repair a flat every third set of tires is small compared to the gain I seem to be getting on front tire mileage.
    BMWMOA #143326

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