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Thread: Anybody using oil additives?

  1. #16
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    [QUOTE=Cliffy777] i met a guy once (at an oil change place) who told me his car lost it's oil (freeze plug popped out) and he drove 50 miles and didn't know it because he had PTTF in the motor. I dunno. maybe i will just forget it and drive.[/QUOTE

    For what it's worth, if you lost a freeze plug, you'll loose your anti-freeze, not your oil. But to your question, any proper motorcycle rated oil made today, synthetic or dino, is all you need to keep your bike in excellent condition. You do not want to use any oil marked EC...not good for the bike. My local BMW dealer recommends regular oil changes using dino oils...the only really advantage to synthetics over dino is it's life span, which means less changes...but it cost almost twice as much so the only financial advantage is the cost of 1/2 an oil filter , or about $ 6.50......me, I change oil and filter every 3,000 and use Spectro 20-50 year round. And if I am on a trip and need to top off, Walmart and a qt of Castrol does the trick. and in over 100,000 miles, I ve never had a problem.

  2. #17
    A bozo on the bus deilenberger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Global Rider
    Usually at a bearing supply store. Pricey, but it does make 20 US quarts of oil. Split it with other riders.

    Dow Corning Lubricant - M Gear Guard
    It may be worth noting - Dow - at least on the bottle of Gear-Guard
    I have, does not recommend mixing it with synthetic oil products.

    This may have changed (the bottle is about 5 years old), but I would
    consider the best thing to use in transmissions and rear-drives to be
    a quality synthetic gear lube meeting BMW's requirements. The BMW
    70w-140 gear lube is quite good in smoothing out klunky K bike
    transmissions.

    As far as engine oil - it it doesn't come in the oil from the manufacturer
    I'm not going to second guess them and try brewing up a mix. They
    have a vested interest in their oil doing good things for you. I use
    Mobil-1 Red-Cap 15w-40 year round in my K75S, and according to
    an oil test I had done - it's doing good things in my engine at
    6,000 mile change intervals.

    Here is a link to the report - you'll need Adobe Acrobat to
    read it:

    http://www.eilenberger.net/K75S/C21138.pdf

    Best,
    Don Eilenberger http://www.eilenberger.net
    Spring Lk Heights NJ NJ Shore BMW Riders New Sweden BMW Riders
    '07 R1200R (current ride) and some bimmers.. and a Porsche

  3. #18
    Alps Adventurer GlobalRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deilenberger
    It may be worth noting - Dow - at least on the bottle of Gear-Guard I have, does not recommend mixing it with synthetic oil products.

    This may have changed (the bottle is about 5 years old), but I would
    consider the best thing to use in transmissions and rear-drives to be
    a quality synthetic gear lube meeting BMW's requirements. The BMW
    70w-140 gear lube is quite good in smoothing out klunky K bike
    transmissions.
    Best,

    Hi Don,

    The label on my latest bottle (as well as the bottle I bought about 5 years ago) of Dow Corning makes no specific mention of synthethics, unless polyalkylene glycol, diester silicone or water soluable cutting oils are known as "synthetics".

    Not a concern of mine as I mix it with the recommended 90 Hypoid gear oil meeting API GL5, Bel Ray in my case.

    BMW NA may sell 75W-140, but nowhere in my owner's handbook or their service CD does it mention that grade.

    Most owners don't perform their first inspection so they may not be aware that BMW is usuing an additive in the rear drives of their latest motorcycles...GSes at least.

    BTW nowhere in that oil report does it say who Blackstone Laboratories are traceable to. Is their equipment calibrated?

  4. #19
    picaresque
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    Don't Do It!!!

    That is, unless you REALLY want to ruin your engine. PFTE is otherwise known as teflon, the exact same stuff that coats nonstick cookware. The reason it is so bad for an engine is because it is a solid, and can clog up your oil passages, resulting in the mechanical equivalent of a massive heart attack. There is no manufacturer that recommends this stuff, and for good reason. I think BMW would void your warrantee if you added it to your engine.

    Do you really want to take that chance?

  5. #20
    dlearl476
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    Quote Originally Posted by gezerbike
    But to your question, any proper motorcycle rated oil made today, synthetic or dino, is all you need to keep your bike in excellent condition. You do not want to use any oil marked EC...not good for the bike..

    I'd say spend a few minutes on any oil related site, like the one RJ linked. EC oil is only a problem if you have a wet clutch, which most BMW DON'T have, unless you ride an F type. And FWIW, if you're running any XXW/50 chances are it's EC even if it doesn't say it's EC. Part of the EC spec dissallows any viscosity over 40 Weight. Castrol 20W/50 for instance is the exact formulation as EC labeled 10W/40 (without so much viscosity modifiers, of course)
    And in all the reading I've done, the only confirmed benefit of the extra dough that motorcycle specific oil buys you is peace of mind. There's not really any huge difference (aside from the cost) that wouldn't be negated by frequent changes. Any quality name brand oil of the proper viscosity is fine in your bike.
    Like I'm fond of saying "clean oil is better than dirty oil and dirty oil is better than no oil". Golden Spectro and Amsoil advertising claims aside, there's no DATA that proves otherwise.
    Alex, are you certain what you drained out of your rear end isn't a "break-in" forumula? One of the reasons that 600 mile check is so important. Triumph, for instance, has a special Mobil 1 "break-in" dino oil that helps seat rings, etc. It comes out at 600 miles and M-1 15W50 synth goes in. Voids the warranty for any engine related failure if it's not changed.

  6. #21
    Alps Adventurer GlobalRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dlearl
    Alex, are you certain what you drained out of your rear end isn't a "break-in" forumula? One of the reasons that 600 mile check is so important.
    The oil that drained from the rear wheel drive of both my 2003 and 2004 GS Adventure contained molybdenum disulfide (MoS2) additive as far as I'm concerned. No doubt in my mind unless another additive makes oil that black and I mean pitch black. I'm used to seeing it because that is what my hypoid gear oil looks like coming out of the transmission and rear drive of my R100 GS that I mix DC M Gear Guard in with.

    At the upcoming show, I will ask BMW what the story is.

    As for lubricants, I use what is recommended...period. Why second guess those that know unless there is an issue as there is with airhead transmissions...ones without the circlip...the reason I use an additive.

    As for engine oils, I use motorcycle specific oils, but non-synthetic. Being an EC oil isn't an issue since we run a dry clutch, but there are other "ingredients" in MC specific oils that do make a difference over the long haul. I will use a synthetic if going on a long tour if I don't want to have to do an oil change enroute.

    NOTE: Although I don't use MolySlip products, they state:

    Molyslip Manual Transmission Supplement can be used with any mineral oil (traditional motor oil), synthetic oil or synthetic/mineral blends. For best results, add Molyslip Manual Transmission Supplement at each oil change, however you don't need to change the oil before adding. Just don't overfill.

    Molyslip Manual Transmission Supplement should NOT be used in transmissions using a wet clutch system (found on many motorcycles), in automatic transmissions, in manual transmissions using a glycol based fluid or on limited slip differentials.

  7. #22
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    There is a good read on this oil thing @ the advrider website refering to using diesel rated oils in our bikes. But one of the things I remember reading is that the EC labeled oils contain less lead and phosphorus, which the EPA has regulated. Diesel oils on the other hand are not regulated down on these 2 key ingredients. But this whole oil thing really is rather amusing...most BMW riders average less than 10,000 miles a year....4 oil changes tops. If you spend $2.00 a quart more for recommended oil , that's $ 32.00 tops for the year...not enough to make me loose sleep over whether I'm properly taking care of my bike. And there must be something to using factory recommended products....new BMW cars come with full synthetic in their motors, yet the bikes don't...must be a reason and I am sure cost isn't one of them. And the cars come with a 15,000 mile oil change interval. Hop over to the www.advrider.com site and look up the read I was talking about...folks with alot more knowledge about this stuff submitted some pretty interesting reads.

  8. #23
    Tells it like it is......
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    I use MOBIL 1 15w/50 in the engine and MOBIL 1 75w/90 in the tranny and final drive.

    Been using MOBIL 1 in the tranny / final drive since the initial 600 mi. service, and started using MOBIL 1 in the engine at 1200 miles.

    I'm now at 15,000+ miles, and my RT doesn't use any oil between changes.

    For the most part, additives = snake oil.
    Last edited by dano; 01-19-2005 at 02:52 AM.

  9. #24
    97 RT 300 km & kickin kmEatr's Avatar
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    I've used this over 15 years

    I have used Metalon in my GSXR's racing (over 5000 km's), Moto Guzzi's, VW Diesel (over 750,000 km's), and my BMW's and currently in my '97 RT that has over 150,000 km's. Have never had "gooee" valve covers, and never blown a motor. It dosn't matter the weight of the oil or the temp's that you ride / drive in Metalon seems to help my engines run better. It seems a little more money than other products but you use less so the bottle really lasts longer. I have a friend that has Slick 50 as a racing sponsor but likes the Metalon much better.

    I don't have any affiliation to this product.....I just use it and like it's performance.

    http://metalontech.com/metalonm.ihtml

    Hope this helps out...

  10. #25
    PRAY BEFORE RIDING roadcrave's Avatar
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    Oils

    I inherated a 1962 studabaker from my wifes grandpa, this car had ATF in EVERYTHING - we drove that car forever with no leaks, or engine problems,
    ATF is a wonderful lubricant and does not turn black...matthew

  11. 01-05-2005, 11:22 AM

  12. #26
    Tells it like it is......
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    I've been using MOBIL 1 15w/50 in my '03 RT since the 3000 mile mark.

    Been using MOBIL 1 75w/90 in the tranny / final drive since 1200 miles.

    Bike runs great and doesn't use any appreciable amount of oil between oil / filter changes.

    BTW: No need to use any oil additives, if you change your oil / filter on a routine schedule.

  13. #27
    Registered User donkey doctor's Avatar
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    Hello; Way . . . way back when I started my apprenticeship in heavy duty mechanics (1978) the instructors told us that additives are a waste of money. If a manufacturer wanted an additive package used in tehir engines, they would recommend it in their users manual. I have seen hundreds of user manuals and have never seen a recommendation for an oil additive. They must know something about their engines, transmissions and rear ends.

    Years ago (1982) a pickup came in with a blown diff, we had a new boss at the time, he said, don't change the diff, just put this can into it and send it out again. We all laughed about it at the time, the idea that whatever was in that can could weld broken gears back together, but I did what I was told, and , of course, it didn't work, and I changed the diff two days later.

    A few years later (1984) we diecided to try synthetic oil in our off road logging trucks. Two new engines were going into trucks (Cat 3408 engines at 24.000 dollars each), the drivers were very similar in miles and maintenance records. We used synthetic in one and dino oil in the other. After 12 years of service both engines were brought in and torn down and inspected with particular attention to bearing wear. Neither engine showed any apprecable wear. It was uncanny, the parts looked identical. This is after 24,000 hours nearly continuous use. The conclusion was that the synthetic was a good oil but the extra cost was not justifiable.

    I know that you guys want what you think is best for your equipment, and that you might feel better knowing that you paid more for the oil you use in it. That is where synthetic oils advantage is, it might make you feel like you have the best in there. If that is what you want, go ahead.

    I had a high mileage VW rabbit (750,000 kms.) that would run away on dino oil, I put synth oil in it and it didn't run away any more. The problem was blow-by at the rings, and that the synth wasn't as combustable as the dino oil. The solution to the problem was new rings, but I got another 30 or 40 thousand out of it by using synth oil. Like they say in the commercials "your results may vary".

  14. #28
    Alps Adventurer GlobalRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Global Rider
    The oil that drained from the rear wheel drive of both my 2003 and 2004 GS Adventure contained molybdenum disulfide (MoS2) additive as far as I'm concerned. No doubt in my mind unless another additive makes oil that black and I mean pitch black. I'm used to seeing it because that is what my hypoid gear oil looks like coming out of the transmission and rear drive of my R100 GS that I mix DC M Gear Guard in with.

    At the upcoming show, I will ask BMW what the story is.
    BMW Canada contacted BMW AG. They claim no additives are used. I wonder. In all my years of wrenching, I have never seen a gear oil turn pitch black in a mere 600 miles.

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