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Thread: Final Drive fluid

  1. #16
    Rally Rat
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    Quote Originally Posted by Semper_Fi View Post
    My 3 series has "Lifetime" tranny and differential fluids.............
    And my Z4 originally had "Lifetime" coolant - but my dealer still did a 4 year change under the covered maintenance policy. Personally, I'm glad to see BMW adjust the service recs as more info becomes available.

    Tom

  2. #17
    A bozo on the bus deilenberger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marcopolo View Post
    BMW specifies Castrol SAF-XO for the final drive. That product is a 75W90 synthetic GL5 gear oil. The Castrol stuff is not readily available at U.S. BMW bike dealers, though it is in other countries. BMW Motorrad USA markets a BMW-branded 75W90 synthetic gear oil for this purpose. If you want you could try another brand that meets the same specs.
    For Castrol SAF-XO - see your friendly local Land-Rover dealer - apparently they use it in the differentials (so I've heard). I find it simpler to use the BMW synthetic myself.
    Don Eilenberger http://www.eilenberger.net
    Spring Lk Heights NJ NJ Shore BMW Riders New Sweden BMW Riders
    '07 R1200R (current ride) and some bimmers.. and a Porsche

  3. #18
    Ken ken e's Avatar
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    The service manager at my local dealer ( Morton's BMW, Fredericksburg VA ) told me to only use synthetic 75W140 gear oil in the final drive as per the tech's at BMW NA. I'm curently using Mobil 1.
    thanks.
    Ken.

  4. #19
    Registered User marcopolo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by keneichhorst View Post
    The service manager at my local dealer ( Morton's BMW, Fredericksburg VA ) told me to only use synthetic 75W140 gear oil in the final drive as per the tech's at BMW NA. I'm curently using Mobil 1.
    thanks.
    Ken.
    Can he show you where, on paper, BMW specifies 75W140? I hear this fairly frequently, but to my knowledge the only specified fluid for the hexhead FDs is 75W90 synthetic.
    Mark
    2006 R1200RT

  5. #20
    Ken ken e's Avatar
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    That was a verbal on my last service visit. But, they'll be open Tuesday. www.mortonsbmw.com or 540-891-9844 and ask for Stuart.
    thanks
    Ken
    2009 R1200RT
    1993 K75 - for sale
    1969 R60US and others long gone.

  6. #21
    drummer12345
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    Ease of Maintenance

    Good tips on how to do this myself. Much appreciated.

    That being said I bought the bike with the guarantee that I wouldn't have to do this work. That is my biggest gripe.

    That BMW is sort of admitting their mistake without really admitting it is great. Now how are they going to make it right to those of us effected?

  7. #22
    God? What god? roborider's Avatar
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    Easy, they won't do anything. No manufacturer would.
    Rob C. , Raleigh, NC
    '10 R12RT, R90/6
    2007 CBR600RR & 09 V-Star
    Suzuki DR 350

  8. #23
    Registered User marcopolo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drummer12345 View Post
    That being said I bought the bike with the guarantee that I wouldn't have to do this work. That is my biggest gripe.

    That BMW is sort of admitting their mistake without really admitting it is great. Now how are they going to make it right to those of us effected?
    I'm not a BMW apologist, but I'm not sure how you can interpret a maintenance schedule as a "guarantee" of not having to do something for all time, i.e., that it will never change, no matter what. Would we not expect them to revise maintenance schedules if they determine through real-life experience that something needs to change? For me, making it right is BMW issuing a revised maintenance schedule.
    Mark
    2006 R1200RT

  9. #24
    Kool Aid Dispenser! jimvonbaden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marcopolo View Post
    I'm not a BMW apologist, but I'm not sure how you can interpret a maintenance schedule as a "guarantee" of not having to do something for all time, i.e., that it will never change, no matter what. Would we not expect them to revise maintenance schedules if they determine through real-life experience that something needs to change? For me, making it right is BMW issuing a revised maintenance schedule.

    Absolutely!

    BTW Here is my take on the FD fluid change: http://www.jimvonbaden.com/R1200_Final_Drive.html

    Jim

  10. #25
    Ken ken e's Avatar
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    My limited, non-engineer, gear head, 30 year knowledge of final drives.....
    The spiral bevel gears used in these final drives are the worst thing you can do to oil. Lots of shear when gear faces slide against each other. There are lots of smelly additives in there ("Extreme pressure"). As a Shell Oil engineer told me about a bevel gear box problem we were having at work that was getting hot and failing frequently, "Every 15 degree rise in temp, oil life is cut in half. Add an oil cooler, or volume, or change the oil more frequently".

    There is less than 8 oz. of oil in that closed space, and as these bikes build more torque, there is going to be more stress on the gears/oil/bearings in the final drive. Back in the /2, /5 days when the bikes had 30 - 50 HP new, this was a non-issue, change the 90W gear lube every couple of years and you were good. Now we are abusing these things with iron butt mileage / speed / torque and not wanting to change the oil?

    The corporate mesage of all motor vehicle manufacures seems to be, to reduce short term service costs to make the inital sale look good. Even when they said "lifetime final drive oil", I change it every year ( about 15k for me ). Lifetime for them must be 100k. Lifetime for me is 50 years (maybe), and I am going to change the oil no mater what they say. Heck, If I had a chain drive bike, I'd be oiling weekly and annually replacing chain/sprockets.
    Ken E.
    2012 R1200RT
    '09 RT, '93 K75, '69 R60US and others long gone....

  11. #26
    drummer12345
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    I guess I'm looking at it all wrong. To me I see it the same as if a dealership sold me a car that the manufacture said had 300 hp and then I found out it only had 200 hp.

    It's all about the selling point. Having lifetime final drive fluid was a selling point to me. Add that to two dealerships telling me that BMW doesn't want me working on my own bike so they aren't producing repair manuals anymore. So instead of lifetime final drive fluid I now have to pay $90.10 at least once yearly to have the dealership do it.

    I am the target market for BMW. I'm 28 years old male looking for a brand that will suit me. BMW corporate isn't just turning me away, they are shoving me.

  12. #27
    drummer12345
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    Quote Originally Posted by keneichhorst View Post

    The corporate mesage of all motor vehicle manufacures seems to be, to reduce short term service costs to make the inital sale look good. Even when they said "lifetime final drive oil", I change it every year ( about 15k for me ). Lifetime for them must be 100k. Lifetime for me is 50 years (maybe), and I am going to change the oil no mater what they say. Heck, If I had a chain drive bike, I'd be oiling weekly and annually replacing chain/sprockets.
    You are getting closer to how I feel. They sold me a bike under the pretense of lifetime oil and I believe that they knew that wasn't true. With all the testing that BMW does, even racing R1200Ss, they didn't figure out that the oil needs changing every year until after the sold me the bike? What else have they conducted insufficient testing on before they sold it to me?

    When I bought my Triumph I was told to oil my chain every 200 miles or each gas tank. He said that the chain is self lubricating but oil it anyway. That's a more honest salesman to me and how a business should be run.

  13. #28
    Ken ken e's Avatar
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    Kyle, BMW does sell repair DVD's to us average Joe's, one for mechanical and one for the electrical system, over $100 each though. You can work on your own bike, or have an independent do the work, its not against the law. Just need to record the work performed in the owners manual, or any other sutable journal.
    Good luck.
    Ken E.
    2012 R1200RT
    '09 RT, '93 K75, '69 R60US and others long gone....

  14. #29
    drummer12345
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    Quote Originally Posted by keneichhorst View Post
    Kyle, BMW does sell repair DVD's to us average Joe's, one for mechanical and one for the electrical system, over $100 each though. You can work on your own bike, or have an independent do the work, its not against the law. Just need to record the work performed in the owners manual, or any other sutable journal.
    Good luck.
    I have a repair manual now. I got one of two remaining at BMW North America. The last two that BMW NA is getting. They aren't making/getting anymore in. That came straight from BMW.

  15. #30
    K Bikes Complex by Choice cjack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drummer12345 View Post
    I have a repair manual now. I got one of two remaining at BMW North America. The last two that BMW NA is getting. They aren't making/getting anymore in. That came straight from BMW.
    That is because the new repair manual is a composite of maintenance schedules, flat rates, torques, fluid recommendations, and repair manuals for the latest bikes (about '05 and later). It includes ALL of the later models, not just one model and all of the years with their production differences. Also data on torques for most earlier models and fluid recommendations and capacities. For some things, it goes back to the airheads. It's called the "RSD Repair and Service Data", comes out every quarter and the latest is the 12th edition, multilingual 4GB DVD. Part # 01 79 7 707 275 and costs $339.20 list price. You can print from it too. One copy will last you many years as to things not changing for the model(s) you have and most data not changing for succeeding years on your model.
    Dealers say all manner of things. And BMW reps may say all manner of things. Many times they don't speak for BMWAG or BMWNA.
    I don't think BMW is trying to keep you from doing your own work. BMW warranty covers all parts installed by the dealer or sold over the counter for 2 years with unlimited mileage (info also in another MOA thread). That doesn't sound like BMW is trying to prevent someone from doing their own work. Sometimes a caveat about tackling some repair or maintenance which may be beyond some owner's capability. That's fair isn't it?
    Document your work. Use the fluids recommended in the RSD (dealers come up with the most astounding recommendations for fluids...). Spend a little on tools (the DVD is a tool) and most of all, put more wear on the treads than you put on the threads.
    BMWMotorcycles, fun when they're running...
    My other bike is a BMW.
    Jack Hawley MOA and RA #224, KE9UW ("Chuck")

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