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Thread: Radar Detector

  1. #31
    Focused kbasa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rinty View Post
    I usually wait for a scout to go by at a rate of speed I like, and then follow an appropriate distance behind. If the scout gets radared, I hit the brakes. This technique has worked well for me over the years, and I've saved dozens of tickets. I use the Escort 8500, but may get a Valentine as well.

    But with so much laser out there now, if you're into ECM, you have to consider whether to install a jammer, and the problem is that you can't easily move them from vehicle to vehicle. Here's a link to a recent discussion of them on the Rennlist:

    http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforum...er-jammer.html


    We call them "rabbits". When we rode separate bikes, we'd hold up two fingers like a peace sign and wiggle the fingers and point to the rabbit. That meant "let's follow the rabbit and let him/her take the ticket".

    I'd give them a quarter mile of space and see what happened.
    Dave Swider
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  2. #32
    Registered User RINTY's Avatar
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    That's we call them up here, as well, Dave.

    In August, I had a good one on an early morning run through the Roger's Pass in B.C.; a guy in a Lexus running at 150 (km/hr). I was a few hundred yards back, and there was a Civic in between, who kept trying to pass for some reason. But he just didn't have the ponies for the long uphills; hilarious.

    I usually avoid the Trans Canada in B.C. in the summer, but that was a fun run.
    Last edited by rinty; 12-10-2009 at 06:31 AM.
    Rinty

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  3. #33
    Registered User greenwald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoboRider View Post
    So explain this:

    On the Dragon, the TN HP will sit in a particular turnout blasting radar, and another THP will pull guys over and write them up. I get about a TWO FULL HAIRPIN notice when these guys are sitting there.

    I agree detectors aren't what they used to be, but don't even tell me they don't give you enough alert in specific situations.

    Also, if you ride in VA and some other states, carry an old no good detector with you. I was pulled over and instead of a ticket, the cop said he'd confiscate the detector, my choice. I had an old Passport that I gave him. One of my favorite stories....
    Like I said in my last post, the well-trained and certified officer knows exactly where his/her radar signal is going and when it's going to be detected.

    Running radar is as much about getting traffic to slow down as issuing tickets.

    And you and I both know how hard it is to operate that R1200RT slowly!
    Kevin Greenwald - Touring Tips Editor
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  4. #34
    Registered User greenwald's Avatar
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    7. +10 is pretty safe. +7.5 is real safe. This is called being reasonable in breaking the law (which I don't get all upset about since it isn't MORALLY wrong to speed, despite what prosecutors and LEOs sometimes express. There is no commandment "Thou shalt not speed..") Anyway - how fast do you gotta go? Almost any police department has an unwritten policy of not writing tickets for less than 10 over - just because it's a hassle.. too many people decide to fight them. The ideal ticket is one for +11 over, and it's paid by check, and the cop/prosecutor never have to come into the courtroom.

    OK Deilenberger - you got me - I can barely type, I'm chuckling so hard. You made my morning!

    Seriously, about 90% of what you wrote is an excellent perspective on this topic (and it's only a topic - no arguing needs to occur here - just friendly banter).

    But the 'logic' of "it's OK to break the laws that aren't morally wrong" takes rationalization to a stratospheric level.

    Over my career, I interacted with about 5,000 new people every year, and have kept a sort of mental glossary of rationalizations for illegal behavior. But yours is absolutely precious, and instantly breaks into the TOP FIVE.

    "Have a nice day, and drive safely now."
    Kevin Greenwald - Touring Tips Editor
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  5. #35
    Cam Killer marchyman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenwald View Post
    Running radar is as much about getting traffic to slow down as issuing tickets.
    Must be. Back when I used a detector I once had it light up like a christmas tree saying there were many signal sources in front of me. Turned out there *lots* of CHP helping to guide a very large oversize load (maybe 1 1/2 lanes wide) on a very straight section of CA 46 only two lanes wide. All of them had their radar on and active. It was obvious that the goal was to get attention, not to enforce traffic laws. Radar, modulating headlamps, flashing lights, etc., were all in use. Everything but sirens.

  6. #36
    A bozo on the bus deilenberger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenwald View Post
    OK Deilenberger - you got me - I can barely type, I'm chuckling so hard. You made my morning!

    Seriously, about 90% of what you wrote is an excellent perspective on this topic (and it's only a topic - no arguing needs to occur here - just friendly banter).

    But the 'logic' of "it's OK to break the laws that aren't morally wrong" takes rationalization to a stratospheric level.

    Over my career, I interacted with about 5,000 new people every year, and have kept a sort of mental glossary of rationalizations for illegal behavior. But yours is absolutely precious, and instantly breaks into the TOP FIVE.

    "Have a nice day, and drive safely now."
    Glad you enjoyed it.

    The reason I mentioned that is some people do seem to think that it's morally wrong to speed.. that some greater being (who we can't discuss here) will frown on speeding. I suspect the greater being really couldn't care less. It's sorta get down off the high horse on speeding.

    If you wanna speed - and do it safely - it's no skin off my nose. It's been shown time and time again - speed by itself isn't unsafe. Things like speeds not safe for the situation (too fast OR as shown by Eddie James tragic accident - too slow - or too great a difference in speed) are when speed becomes unsafe. Too fast a speed by itself isn't "unsafe" despite what the insurance companies and government revenuers* might say.

    One thing I'd be interested in is your comments on the "respect" issue. This really opened some eyes at a club meeting a few years ago. The chap talking to us was a motorcyclist, and also the local prosecutor for about 10 different towns, handling LOTS of speeding ticket cases. He was at the meeting to discuss how to avoid getting them, and then how to minimize the impact of getting one. Very interesting topic and discussion.

    * = I normally wouldn't use that phrase - but the pole-radar ticket a few weeks ago in WDC where it's VERY obvious if you visit their website they look at it as a means to help generate revenue made it rather obvious to me. Sorta like the red light cameras that were installed many places in the US with a much shortened yellow light cycle. Done for revenue, not safety (accident rates went UP - with being tailended the biggest increase as people slammed on their brakes to avoid being caught in the short yellow cycle. Being tailended on a bike is no fun, BTDT and don't wanna do it again.)

    FWIW - the WDC website had absolutely nothing on how the stationary/unmanned/robot radar reduced accidents.. just how it increased revenue. Sorta telling eh?
    Don Eilenberger http://www.eilenberger.net
    Spring Lk Heights NJ NJ Shore BMW Riders New Sweden BMW Riders
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  7. #37
    Cage Rattler wezul's Avatar
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    Rabbit, Run

    Quote Originally Posted by KBasa View Post


    We call them "rabbits". When we rode separate bikes, we'd hold up two fingers like a peace sign and wiggle the fingers and point to the rabbit. That meant "let's follow the rabbit and let him/her take the ticket".

    I'd give them a quarter mile of space and see what happened.
    OMG, I get it now!

    Dear John Updike . . . . . .

  8. #38
    2009 F650GS SirRonny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoboRider View Post
    So explain this:

    On the Dragon, the TN HP will sit in a particular turnout blasting radar, and another THP will pull guys over and write them up. I get about a TWO FULL HAIRPIN notice when these guys are sitting there.

    I agree detectors aren't what they used to be, but don't even tell me they don't give you enough alert in specific situations.

    Also, if you ride in VA and some other states, carry an old no good detector with you. I was pulled over and instead of a ticket, the cop said he'd confiscate the detector, my choice. I had an old Passport that I gave him. One of my favorite stories....
    +1 one on what Robo says. I have used a Bell Professional 65 here in Missouri and I can't tell you the amount of times this thing has saved my bacon. Like what he was saying, they would be running the radar a long way off and I would pick them up from considerable distance, most times before I ever caught site of the car, slowed down and they were were. I used to average a couple of tickets a year, since I had the Bell I have never have one. Not to say that I can't get hit with laser or plane and now that I have posted this probably will, but I can safely say it has saved my bacon....many more times that once.

    Ron
    Ron Morris
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  9. #39
    Registered User greenwald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deilenberger View Post
    Glad you enjoyed it.

    The reason I mentioned that is some people do seem to think that it's morally wrong to speed.. that some greater being (who we can't discuss here) will frown on speeding. I suspect the greater being really couldn't care less. It's sorta get down off the high horse on speeding.

    If you wanna speed - and do it safely - it's no skin off my nose. It's been shown time and time again - speed by itself isn't unsafe. Things like speeds not safe for the situation (too fast OR as shown by Eddie James tragic accident - too slow - or too great a difference in speed) are when speed becomes unsafe. Too fast a speed by itself isn't "unsafe" despite what the insurance companies and government revenuers* might say.

    One thing I'd be interested in is your comments on the "respect" issue. This really opened some eyes at a club meeting a few years ago. The chap talking to us was a motorcyclist, and also the local prosecutor for about 10 different towns, handling LOTS of speeding ticket cases. He was at the meeting to discuss how to avoid getting them, and then how to minimize the impact of getting one. Very interesting topic and discussion.

    * = I normally wouldn't use that phrase - but the pole-radar ticket a few weeks ago in WDC where it's VERY obvious if you visit their website they look at it as a means to help generate revenue made it rather obvious to me. Sorta like the red light cameras that were installed many places in the US with a much shortened yellow light cycle. Done for revenue, not safety (accident rates went UP - with being tailended the biggest increase as people slammed on their brakes to avoid being caught in the short yellow cycle. Being tailended on a bike is no fun, BTDT and don't wanna do it again.)

    FWIW - the WDC website had absolutely nothing on how the stationary/unmanned/robot radar reduced accidents.. just how it increased revenue. Sorta telling eh?
    Glad you didn't mind that I enjoyed your comments, and moved you into my TOP FIVE....certainly what you should consider an honor!

    As for that often taboo subject ( starts with Re.... and ends with...ligion), I do recall passages in the Bible that tell the story of a certain individual (we'll call him J.C.) being tested by legal scholars of the day, questioning him about whose rules hold more sway - earthly or heavenly. The response was "Obey the laws of God and Man." Not sure what that does to the 'morally wrong' arguement about speeding, but sounds like a debate best reserved for the Beer Tent.

    As for "speed by itself isn't unsafe," that's sort of like the logic of "It isn't the fall that kills you, it's the sudden stop." Speed amplifies the danger-effect of everything from a blown tire to a separated centerstand (don't ask - it happens!) to the pothole or deer encounter to a broken clutch cable to.............well, the laundry list could go on infinitum (sort of like my posts!).

    We accept a higher level of risk by merely deciding to operate a motorcycle, and I don't intend to ride around in a 'fog of paranoia' about all the things that might go wrong, but excessive speed introduces a multiplier for things that do, so it's a factor in the equation of safety. Just my spin - probably something we could only resolve after the 2nd beer.

    As for my perspective on how far 'respect' goes, and whether or not that is a two-way street: absolutely. When most new LEO's come out of whatever academy they attended, they're "book-smart and street-stupid," as I liked to call it. As a Field Training Officer (FTO) for my department, the first thing I did was get them to drop the official line that "You must decide whether or not to cite a violator before you exit your squad and actually have contact with him/her." That template of thought was supposed to eliminate any possibility of being swayed by bribe, beauty, prominence, predjudice or persuasive arguement.

    What a bunch of crap. We're all human, make mistakes, and some of us can actually learn from them. I taught officers to converse with 'violators' and then form an opinion as to how they might be encouraged to become a safer driver: verbal warning, written warning or citation. How a motorcyclist reacts to the presence of a squad car (i.e. sudden deceleration, which we as LEO's translate as "Yes, Officer, I see you - I've been a bad boy - I'm not going to elude"), how they dress (ATGATT, or at least a helmet), their demeanor (turn bike off, hands on the grips until the officer makes contact) goes a long way toward a more favorable outcome to the traffic stop than you might realize.

    Lastly (getting winded now), that whole Wash. D.C. (just there in October, by the way - great city!) 'radar on a pole' circus (gives a twisted meaning to "under the radar!"): Radar by its very engineering, is a highly sensitive device. In the absence of a strong signal, it will react to virtually any source of electro-magnetic energy, be that a power line or lightning or high-frequency generator or whatever. That is why the human factor is critical to reliable, honest radar enforcement.

    Robo-cop radar that you must suffer with....you have my sympathy, and I agree with you, it exists as a revenue machine.....very little to do with safety.

    Stay warm - Kevin
    Kevin Greenwald - Touring Tips Editor
    Nationally Certified Law Enforcement Motor Officer (Ret.)
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  10. #40
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    I use a brother....my brother that is. He NEVER speeds and i usually follow him. In all of our riding, we have never been pulled over because we/he never speeds. It's kind of nice to "smell the roses" when traveling.

  11. #41
    SAIGON 68 JPONIKTERA's Avatar
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    organ donor

    "You mean I can use the speedometer to avoid traffic tickets? My, a ticket avoidance system built into every motorcycle"

    drive the speed limit in commuter traffic in LA or SAN DIEGO. be an organ donor.
    in the late sixties, early seventies, i went years without a car. more hostility now.
    MOST DRIVERS ARE VERY POLITE. 1% are cretins. i am an agressive rider. i am willing to pay the tickets. no problemo

  12. #42
    Kbiker BCKRider's Avatar
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    My take on speeding is that there is huge difference between "legal" and "safe." Definining legal is easy. There are the signs and lots of ways of enforcing your actual speed. Safe speed is sometimes faster than posted and even (occasionally) a little faster than other traffic. I think judgment is a better device than radar detectors to avoid both accidents and tickets. That said:

    1. Always follow the "locals" example. If they are doing the posted speed or 5 over, there is a good reason. It may be safety or enforcement issues not obvious to you. This holds true in both small towns and highways.

    2. When you leave a small town, hold that speed under +10 above until you have passed the higher speed limit sign. That is a favorite "speed trap" area because the higher limit does not take effect until you pass the sign.

    3. Think about your speed on those twisty 2-lane roads. Can you stop within your sight distance? (Hard to practice.) I know many riders who go considerably faster than I on these roads for years. Skill or luck? But we are not fretting about LEO's. Each to their own.

    I guess what I'm saying is that if you ride or drive, you WILL sometimes exceed the posted limit. Take responsibility for your speed decisions, bearing most in mind your own safety and the safety of the other people sharing the road.

    I now have 13 years of motorcycle riding (with pretty low mileage per year, I admit) but NO speeding tickets on the bike or the car.

    When I lost my first and only radar detecter from my first new car in 1991 (a smash and grab) I decided to never replace it. I've never regretted that decision.
    Doug
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  13. #43
    Fof Rally Bast'd at Large rocketman's Avatar
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    Interesting comments here by both Don and Greenwald. Actually I think they are both right, each in different way. I, like Don, don't think speed is "inherently" unsafe, nor do I think motorcycling is either. But I also agree with Greenwald that each adds an increased risk. While the statements may seem similar on the surface I see them as addressing two different aspects of the same subject. I've gotten flak in the past for making the statement that motoring is not "inherently" unsafe, at least until I explain what I see as the difference between what I said and what the listener interpreted it to mean.
    I don't think its a matter of semantics but rather how each interprets the statements.


    as for detectors I have never had one and living in VA it would be a waste of time anyway since it would put me at risk of getting two tickets or losing the money that I used to paid for it. That's at least one set of tires for the airhead or lots and lots of miles of fuel. I'd rather have the gas or the new tires!

    RM
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    "I'll make a deal with you, I won't bore with my Science if you don't bore me with your Politics!" Lionel Barrymore from the 1929 film "The Mysterious Island"

  14. #44
    Registered User greenwald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCKRIDER View Post
    My take on speeding is that there is huge difference between "legal" and "safe." Definining legal is easy. There are the signs and lots of ways of enforcing your actual speed. Safe speed is sometimes faster than posted and even (occasionally) a little faster than other traffic. I think judgment is a better device than radar detectors to avoid both accidents and tickets. That said:

    1. Always follow the "locals" example. If they are doing the posted speed or 5 over, there is a good reason. It may be safety or enforcement issues not obvious to you. This holds true in both small towns and highways.

    2. When you leave a small town, hold that speed under +10 above until you have passed the higher speed limit sign. That is a favorite "speed trap" area because the higher limit does not take effect until you pass the sign.

    3. Think about your speed on those twisty 2-lane roads. Can you stop within your sight distance? (Hard to practice.) I know many riders who go considerably faster than I on these roads for years. Skill or luck? But we are not fretting about LEO's. Each to their own.

    I guess what I'm saying is that if you ride or drive, you WILL sometimes exceed the posted limit. Take responsibility for your speed decisions, bearing most in mind your own safety and the safety of the other people sharing the road.

    I now have 13 years of motorcycle riding (with pretty low mileage per year, I admit) but NO speeding tickets on the bike or the car.

    When I lost my first and only radar detecter from my first new car in 1991 (a smash and grab) I decided to never replace it. I've never regretted that decision.
    Enjoyed your comments on 'speed.' They all make sense, and are worth reading by all who visit here, IMHO.

    Big difference between 'legal' and 'safe' - no arguement there. Sometimes (i.e. Wisconsin Winters!), 'safe' also means 'slower,' not 'faster.' But I get your point. Don't think for a minute that I don't cruise "with the traffic" in downtown Chicago or when meandering thru the Twin Cities. It would be arrogantly dangerous to simply obey posted limits - I get that.

    Also appreciated your comment about when to increase your speed. State DOT's place changes in speed limits exactly where that can geographically and legally begin to occur. In otherwords, having the green light to bump it up from 25 MPH to 45 MPH doesn't take effect when you see the sign, but rather when you pass it. Good point you make.

    Ride safe, take responsibility for any mistakes (citations) that go unforgiven by the LEO, and enjoy the open road.
    Kevin Greenwald - Touring Tips Editor
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    MSF RiderCoach # 121656 (BRC,SBRC,IS,IME,SMARTrainer,THE REF Staff)
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  15. #45
    Registered User greenwald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rocketman View Post
    Interesting comments here by both Don and Greenwald. Actually I think they are both right, each in different way. I, like Don, don't think speed is "inherently" unsafe, nor do I think motorcycling is either. But I also agree with Greenwald that each adds an increased risk. While the statements may seem similar on the surface I see them as addressing two different aspects of the same subject. I've gotten flak in the past for making the statement that motoring is not "inherently" unsafe, at least until I explain what I see as the difference between what I said and what the listener interpreted it to mean.
    I don't think its a matter of semantics but rather how each interprets the statements.


    as for detectors I have never had one and living in VA it would be a waste of time anyway since it would put me at risk of getting two tickets or losing the money that I used to paid for it. That's at least one set of tires for the airhead or lots and lots of miles of fuel. I'd rather have the gas or the new tires!

    RM
    While it obviously involves managing a higher level of risk (no roll cages, sheet metal, airbags, seatbelts, bumpers, safety glass, crumple zones, etc. to protect us), HOW we manage it will go a long way in determining how safe or unsafe riding our motorcycles will be.

    Speed is not "inherently unsafe." It is simply velocity. But equations are never constructed of a single component - many factors are present.

    With respect to posted limits (and accepting the consequences of violating them!), ride at a speed you're comfortable with, based on your experience, training, equipment and environment (surface, traffic, hazards, weather, etc.).

    Just remember: never let your speed become so reckless that it endangers your passenger or another user of the roadway.

    Riding a motorcycle fast takes very little skill......they teach circus bears to do that.

    Riding a motorcycle safe, regardless of speed, can earn you a cool title like rocketman!
    Kevin Greenwald - Touring Tips Editor
    Nationally Certified Law Enforcement Motor Officer (Ret.)
    MSF RiderCoach # 121656 (BRC,SBRC,IS,IME,SMARTrainer,THE REF Staff)
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