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Thread: A Stebel Nautilus by any other name...

  1. #31
    Registered User I-MAN's Avatar
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    George, the stebel definitely is louder, i could her it 20 miles up the river Mine has been mounted on the crashbars for over a week and almost wired up pending the removal of the said stripped fender bolts.
    BMWMOA #152104

    2009 BMW G650GS
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  2. #32
    Lucky motorradmike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shire2000 View Post
    Once you wrap your head around sound ratings and how they are done, figure out why a 30 watt tube amplifier will be MUCH louder than a 120 watt transistor amplifier.
    I'd love to discuss this. Watts are the same regardless of how you get them, and RMS is the only meaningful number.

    Music power, peak power, and whatever else the manufacturers dreamed up is marketing.

    Or were you being sarcastic?
    Mike Marr
    1978 Yamaha XS750 (Needs rings), 1996 BMW R1100RS, 2004 Honda CRF230F

  3. #33
    shire2000
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    I was not being sarcastic, yet.

    Watts have extremely little to do with how loud an amplifier will be. Just like, the rated (by manufacturer) decibles output of any amplifier or horn is there to make you think it is the loudest. The only reliable way to find out what is the loudest is to have an independent standardized study done. That can be a quick and somewhat dirty procedure of setting up the sound emitting devices in equal situations. i.e. the 2 different horns mounted in the exact same fashion using the exact same amount of input power (measured at the connection to the horns). Then measure the decibles emitted at the exact same distances and directions from the horns with the exact same equipment.

    I have done this with guitar amplifiers and PA systems for numerous local bands. We have always found that Tube type amplifiers and PA systems will output more clean and clear decibles (pure tones) than digital or transistorized equivelents. A simple recent test showed that a 30 watt tube amplifier was capable of pushing clean clear tones at higher decibles than a 400 watt digital amplifier. We had to go to a 600 watt digital amp to get equivelent decible ratings.

    The whole point I am trying to make is, when a manufacturer rates something at a certain point, you have to take into account the standard variables. Did manufacturer "A" measure 1 inch from the horn, while manufacturer "B" measured at a distance of 10 feet? Without that information, a true comparison is impossible. Then comparing a 4 year old horn to a brand new one, also throws another variable into the equation.

    It all comes down to the old addage of comparing apples to apples, instead of apples to oranges.

  4. #34
    Lucky motorradmike's Avatar
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    Dave:

    You sound like a reasonable guy, I agree with most of what you say and I'd like to have a beer with you some day.

    Consider the following:
    All things identical except the amp, both amps have 8 ohm output impedance.

    30W tube amp set to deliver 25WRMS at 1Khz into the test speaker.
    120W solid state amp set to deliver 100WRMS into the same test speaker.

    Are you telling me you think the tube amp scenario will make more noise?
    Mike Marr
    1978 Yamaha XS750 (Needs rings), 1996 BMW R1100RS, 2004 Honda CRF230F

  5. #35
    Cam Killer marchyman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shire2000 View Post

    Watts have extremely little to do with how loud an amplifier will be.
    Agreed, but watts are not dB. Sound pressure level is a measure relative to a reference value, expressed in dB. I forget the reference value typically used.

    When it comes to things like horns the sound pressure level (SPL) is not the final story. Some sounds are more obnoxious that others and, at the same SPL, will "sound louder". I saw this watching mechanical engineers measure the airflow and sound levels of two different electronic chassis systems. Everyone in the room swore that one was louder than the other by a LOT. The SPL meter told a different story, though. Both were exactly the same when measured in the same room using the same meter.

    When selecting horns I think I'd want the one that gets the other persons attention best, even if it didn't necessarily have the best specs. But like I said earlier... I still have the stock horn on my bike. It isn't used often enough to warrant a replacement.

  6. #36
    shire2000
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    MotorradMike,
    My findings in the testing was that the 30 watt tube amp created higher decibles and can be heard from a farther distance at all frequencies that humans can hear. This was tested in a large open acreage situation using both recorded music as well as spoken voice. Both amps cranked to their maxium output and set for a clean a sound as possible. Using the 30 watt tube amp, there was far less distortion (clipping) and human voice could be heard and understood clearly at a much farther distance. The digital amp dropped off in clarity when it got anywhere near it's maximum output, mainly due to clipping and distortion. The decibles were recorded using a high quality industrial decible meter. Not something you can buy at Radio Shack.

    We did this testing for 2 reasons.
    1. To satify our curiosity. I work part time for a local company that sets up stages for concerts and was curious about different types of amplifiers.
    2. We were negotiating with our local municipality to run a series of out door night concerts to showcase our local youth rock bands. Basically trying to promote something for our youth and try to keep them off the streets causing mischief. We had to satisfy the Municipalities noise bylaws.

    marchyman,
    I agree with you 100%. The problem is, that many people buy their sterios, amplifiers for their cars, musical instruments, etc, strictly on the amount of watts it puts out, not taking into account the actual decibles it is capable of creating. Lots of people just have no idea.

  7. #37
    Lucky motorradmike's Avatar
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    OK Dave:

    I can see I'm not getting anywhere. We'll have to meet in Winnipeg for a beer. I know it's a bit further for you but miles are shorter on red bikes.

    Since we've already ruined this thread, what do you think of $100 line cords?

    Magic
    Mike Marr
    1978 Yamaha XS750 (Needs rings), 1996 BMW R1100RS, 2004 Honda CRF230F

  8. #38
    RTFlyer
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    Quote Originally Posted by shire2000 View Post
    MotorradMike,
    Both amps cranked to their maxium output and set for a clean a sound as possible. marchyman,
    You mean, cranked to 11, Nigel??
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Last edited by RTFlyer; 10-24-2009 at 04:38 PM.

  9. #39
    shire2000
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    Both amps cranked to their highest measured output. We measured this at the output of the individual amps. Both did actually drop off a slight amount if you turned the knobs to their maximum. We also tested some different brands of amps, as we knew that different bands would be using their "favourite" amps to achieve their individual "sound". Some would not get anywhere near their actual "rated" wattage, while others went well beyond.

    The whole point I was trying to get to is this. Just because somethnig is rated at a certain output, you have to be somewhat suspect. If all things look to be the same on the 2 brands of air horns, Wolo and Stiebel, and the only difference appears to be the packaging and the name on the unit, then in all likelyhood, they just might be the same. Just because they have different db ratings, does not mean they are not equal. You have to know how they were tested to findthose ratings. If they won't tell you, then again I would be more suspect.

    A similar thing to think about. When looking at the Manufacture's gas milage rating, there is always that little caveat beneath it stating "Your individual milage may vary." Ratings posted by the manufacturer are always done to make the maker look good, never to make them look inferior.

    Sorry about hijacking the thread. I just get tired of people that believe everything they read.

  10. #40
    Rally Rat nytrashman's Avatar
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    since mounting my new stebel i took the wolo apart, seperating the compressor from the actual horn. i am now going to try to fit some tubing in between the two pieces and if it works as planned i will then do the exact same thing to my new stebel. that way i can mount the compressor under the seat and mount the horn itself in a more protected place.


  11. #41
    Cam Killer marchyman's Avatar
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    I like the idea of separating the compressor from the horn. Please keep us informed.

  12. #42
    Rally Rat nytrashman's Avatar
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    having a little trouble finding the parts i need but i will go back to the hardware store tomorrow and hopefully get everything i need to finish this.

  13. #43
    Registered User I-MAN's Avatar
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    George,

    here is some guidance

    http://www.gadgetjq.com/airhorn.htm

    I've done this on the Honda Big Ruckus...the stebel is split and each half is under the tupperware in the front of the scooter. Definitely a better weatherproof installation. I've put 5K miles on this install so far and no issues.
    BMWMOA #152104

    2009 BMW G650GS
    2006 Honda Big Ruckus

  14. #44
    Registered User bmwgsrider's Avatar
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    Stupid question... do you have a separate horn button or wire it to the original horn button?

  15. #45
    Registered User I-MAN's Avatar
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    Original horn button...I cut the horn wires, put spade connectors on it and them plugged them into the stebel wiring harness.

    This shows the finished product



    and where i cut the wires and put the spade connectors on the original horn wires

    Last edited by i-man; 10-30-2009 at 03:39 PM. Reason: added pictures
    BMWMOA #152104

    2009 BMW G650GS
    2006 Honda Big Ruckus

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