Like the new bikes? Thoughts on BMW's vision.

[36654]

Interesting comment.

I like the effortless and bottemless torque and acceleration of my GT.

On the highway I do not even downshift to pass - it's not needed, it was though on my RT and I think the RT is an awesome bike, wish I could have had both.

Anyway, like all things, its a personal thing - the turbine linear power build up in the GT is seductive, tempting and luring - part of the reason we all ride, IMO.

Forget the "linear turbine" description which would be power as a cubic function of RPM. You are longing for an inverter controlled electric motor which has, nominally, constant torque. Toyota's Prius should be a good fit for you.

My father used to praise his 1966 Buick Wildcat (the model between the LeSabre and Electra 225) in the same manner ...... "That hydrostatic drive is so good, it never needs to shift". Now, drawing parallels between a 1966 Buick Sedan and a 200x BMW motorcycle does cause me to pause and ponder the direction of BMW.

[36654]

Because sometimes the enemy isn't ON the road???

Gilly

My question was directed at the GS12xx, instead of the M1A1. In reality, the M1A1 is trailered when paved roads are available, while the GS12xx is, typically, parked when leaving the pavement.

[henzilla]

someone or several of y'all need a hug Has this become another Airhead vs anything else thread? I love them all and hate none unless the battery is dead when I want to roll, then that's fixed and I am loving it again.

I have both of the designs you mention as well as a few older bikes ...a new gen K12S and a R12GSA...both do what I expect from them and that K12 series is no dad's Buick my friend. My dad had the '68 LeSabre so I have something to compare it to.
That GSA is not the lightest kid off the road and I don't go places I did when I was twenty either on my 250 cc bike...I'll take my chances as it makes me very happy at days end when it's taken me to out of the way backtrails . I have seen those big boys go places I would not have dreamed about......heck, I have even off roaded my K12S when the pavement ended in CO recently...all smiles
When it becomes too much to hold up or pick up which does happen to all riders at some point ...which I am hoping is another twenty years by comparing me at 53 to several riding friends in their 70's...I'll downsize... I don't have a lot of "disposable income" as a late boomer,but, I have paid my dues, saved, and spend frugally enough to buy what I want when I want it ..no apologies for that other than sorry if you are not able to.Having a riding and supportive spouse has helped as well as a few of the bikes are HERS.

Airheads, oilheads,hexheads and all the K bikes require some form of maintenance and are as prone to a major failure as any other model or brand. So what? The FD issues and EWS failures are really not as common as the Internet has made them appear. I have ridden the new models since their intro with only one major issue and over 150K of service between 5 of them. You either are up to owning a motorcycle and dealing with issues or you are not. Quit crabbin on those that do like the new technology...if you don't, then don't. BTW, the tupperware on almost all the "new" bikes comes off in about 5 minutes If it takes an hour or more...you are doing something seriously wrong.

Average Joe and another opinion

[saab93driver]

I have often wondered how the membership here feels about the new product coming from Germany. Do you like what you see? Do you find yourself lusting after one of the new models, or, are you thinking what were they "thinking"? Perhaps you are considering the purchase of another brand? I know when I ride my ol' airhead I appreciate the simplicity, but those simple "work on your " bike days are gone, never to return. Sure, some do wrench the new and newer bikes, and good on 'em! But it is a different day in general. What do ya think? Like the new stuff? Hate it? Wish you could get BMW to change direction? Any other thoughts pertaining to BMW bikes? Are ya gonna stay with the brand or abandon it for a new love?

I'd love a new Boxer RS but I don't care for the styling of the new boxers, save the R1200R. I've owned 3 BMW's, no plans to sell my current R1150RS but unless they come out with a design to my taste in the boxer line I am probably on my last BMW. I like the Moto Guzzi Norge but the dealer network is questionable.

[zoridog]

The Good.
The best thing about the new BMWs is that you can actually put your feet down at a stop. Lowered suspension and seats from the factory!

The Bad.
Do we really need more horsepower? My K100 develops 90 HP and only use about 50 of them.

The Ugly.
Made in China.

But what do I know? I laughed when I saw them bring out the 1200 GS. Who would want a 1200cc enduro bike?

If I were at the helm, I would bet my career on a lowered K75RT reissue.

[shire2000]

I don't think it is an Airhead vs anything else thing. I think it has a lot to do with practicality, usability and ease of maintenance.

Sure the new bikes are nice whiz bangy things. And lots of people love all that. If I squint my eyes, they do look sort of pretty. I prefer a more naked bike. I do not like all the tupperware enclosing everything. I do not like a bike that has a pseudo gas tank that forms a huge camel hump in front of me. I really don't want to have to slam on the brakes and become a eunuch all in one shot. I want a bike that looks like a bike, not some weird art form. I prefer a bike that I can work on easily on the side of the road or in my own garage. I do not want to have to get a special computer just to tune it up.

As to getting all the tupperware off, I can get it off real quick, but seriously doubt it would go back on as easily.

I do not need high horsepower, off road capability, ABS brakes, heated seats, fancy radios, GPS, heated grips, capability to do 150+MPH, etc. Sure, some of the creature comforts such as the heated grips would be nice on very cold days, but then what would I do with those nice heated gloves I have been using for many years. The rest of it you can keep.

I have been looking at new bikes from many different manufacturers, as of late. I am starting to get pretty serious about a different brand that is embracing it's roots by bringing out some very nice retro styled bikes. Sure, they do have some of the nice whizzy stuff like fuel injection, etc. But they still look like a real bike. At least to me. I have been riding with 70 or less HP for 40 years. It has always gotten me where I need to go and I can get in enough trouble with that. I don't need 120HP+.

All in all, bike preference is extremely subjective, and you have to throw in a good amount of personal prejudice as well. I don't buy a certain brand of anything just because it is new or someone tells me it is great. I have to feel it is right for me. Unfortunately, I do not feel the new BMWs are right for me. That is why I have continued to ride an airhead. Or maybe it is because I just am an airhead.

[36654]

You either are up to owning a motorcycle and dealing with issues or you are not. Quit crabbin on those that do like the new technology...if you don't, then don't.

Sounds like you need a hug......

[henzilla]

Sounds like you need a hug......

Get several daily

[seniorasi]

The Good.
The best thing about the new BMWs is that you can actually put your feet down at a stop. Lowered suspension and seats from the factory!

The Bad.
Do we really need more horsepower? My K100 develops 90 HP and only use about 50 of them.

The Ugly.
Made in China.

But what do I know? I laughed when I saw them bring out the 1200 GS. Who would want a 1200cc enduro bike?

If I were at the helm, I would bet my career on a lowered K75RT reissue.

Why not an R27 re-issue?

[SCJACK]

I bought my first BMW in early, 1976 (new Daytona Orange R90S). Since then, I have owned a total of:
9-airheads
3-oilheads
3-K-Bikes
I've enjoyed each of them but my favorites have been the airheads. In fact, I quit riding motorcycles a couple of years ago..........but the bug has bitten again, so I just bought a 1981 R100RT that had the fairing removed. It's in great mechanical shape and is pretty good cosmetically. I learned to do my own wrenching on airheads years ago and although I also learned to wrench my oilheads, I found them to require more work than I cared to perform with their labor intensive spline lubes and I discovered too late about the expensive ABS pump problems and rear end problems. Personally, I would never buy another oilhead but to each his own.

[108625]

I like the fact the company is trying broaden their range, and therefore customer base.

However, if they're building models that are more directly competetive with other manufacturer's; they need to be more competetive. If you're trying to bite off a share of the big four's business, charging a premium for the product for exclusivity alone doesn't cut it. More frequent service intervals, higher costs of ownership (service and parts) forcing people to go to the dealer to get that d@mn warning light reset, a less accessible dealership network, long waits for work or parts, and so-on are all areas where their "vision" seems to be deficient.

To BMW I would say:

If you're going to charge me more, you need to offer me more. Otherwise, now that your bikes are becoming more similar to the competition, they are becoming easier to compare to the competition. If there's any doubt which is the better bike; the extra cost of buying (and owning) yours, combined with the extra hassles of limited dealers, poor service, parts delays, and overall good riding time wasted, you don't compare very well.

[MrGrocer]

How true. BMW has completely forgotten it's classic past, i.e. the pre-oilhead Boxers. They do not want to go there again! Discovered with the intro of the brick K's how hard-headed the airhead crowd is. Wish they would though; woud not a new R90S be grand?!

I too love the Guzzi V7 and the retro Ducatis, and the other retro bikes.

And thank goodness. I've ridden airheads since I was 18 and done my own work. I can now go out in the garage and service my bike in a couple of hours. I got a GS-911... zip off the rear wheel, drain everything, fill it, switch filters, diagnosis, clear/correct faults.... bam.

Ever grease clutch splines on a /6... good old days indeed. Not for me, I like my 105 HP and ABS and ASC and ESA and heated comfy space age foam equipped uberbike. I get misty eyed and always want an airhead in my garage but my new bike is easier to work on and performs better and its safer.

I lov 'em all though. The K1300GT, The R1000S, I'll take any of them but I only want to own the easier to maintain boxers.

[JAMESDUNN]

And thank goodness. I've ridden airheads since I was 18 and done my own work. I can now go out in the garage and service my bike in a couple of hours. I got a GS-911... zip off the rear wheel, drain everything, fill it, switch filters, diagnosis, clear/correct faults.... bam.

Ever grease clutch splines on a /6... good old days indeed. Not for me, I like my 105 HP and ABS and ASC and ESA and heated comfy space age foam equipped uberbike. I get misty eyed and always want an airhead in my garage but my new bike is easier to work on and performs better and its safer.

I lov 'em all though. The K1300GT, The R1000S, I'll take any of them but I only want to own the easier to maintain boxers.

The retro bikes by Guzzi and Ducati are only retro in appearance; the styling evoking the past for both marques. They possess modern brakes, engines, tires, and suspensions. I love the clean styling that is evocative of the 70's motorcycles that were so cool looking and functional. If BMW were to manufacture a retro bike it could be something, like say, an update of the iconic R90S with an oilhead engine,and other modern tid bits.

I agree about the good ol 'days, though I still live "there" with my '78 RS. Like you, I find my newer oilhead easy to maintain. I agree the newer K bikes are not so user friendly in that regard. The performance of new K's is truly incredible however, and I have always found power very alluring, so will not rule out eventually owning one of these bikes.

[hillbillypolack]

I'm relatively new to the BMW brand, having a 2007 GS and enjoying it more after every ride.

That said, I do like what I see from BMW, and believe that BMW thinks more about "total cost of ownership" than many other marques. Meaning that when I sling a leg over the GS, it's docile enough in town, balanced, adequate power and torque so that I am able to enjoy it "as delivered" without needing to accessorize it immediately.

When I took delivery of my Ducati S2R, it needed re-gearing, as well as a larger clutch slave cylinder as well as at least a partial exhaust to help it breathe better. If I had thought about it before purchase, I might have an R1200R instead in the garage. I'm not immune to farkeling, but layering on thousands to a "new" bike wasn't something I had in the budget at the time (though it was my fault I guess).

The strategic direction I see BMW going is good. Their diversity with the R engine is great, from the 1200R, HP2, Megamoto, GS and GSA. I hope that BMW maintains the air cooled simplicity once they develop a successor to the Hexhead. If a company can engineer around Euro3 emissions, it certainly is BMW, especially since the boxer engine layout is their heritage.

The K and F bikes are great too, though I'm not sure the F800 is priced correctly. Seems a bit on the tall side. Rides great though. The new 1000R, on the other hand seems to be a bargain. I'd love to see more volume production of bikes like the MegaMoto, bring that price down to where I'd consider it as a stablemate to the GS.

Weak entries are the G bikes. They seem too similar to KTMs for example, with an added pricetag. I doubt this is justifiable after I've heard about their Chinese origin. Squaring up the lower end is a matter of strategy (does BMW "belong" in entry bikes), or trickle down their parts bins so that these lower cost bikes aren't as distant from the rest of the range.

The only (and very picky) detail I can see is BMW insistence of using soft-ish textured plastics in high-wear areas. Scuffs, road damage, etc on saddlebags and forward facing surfaces just look badly after several thousand miles. Then again, I guess that open some doors to farkeling too (!)

[hillbillypolack]

I like the fact the company is trying broaden their range, and therefore customer base.

However, if they're building models that are more directly competetive with other manufacturer's; they need to be more competetive. If you're trying to bite off a share of the big four's business, charging a premium for the product for exclusivity alone doesn't cut it. More frequent service intervals, higher costs of ownership (service and parts) forcing people to go to the dealer to get that d@mn warning light reset, a less accessible dealership network, long waits for work or parts, and so-on are all areas where their "vision" seems to be deficient.

To BMW I would say:

If you're going to charge me more, you need to offer me more. Otherwise, now that your bikes are becoming more similar to the competition, they are becoming easier to compare to the competition. If there's any doubt which is the better bike; the extra cost of buying (and owning) yours, combined with the extra hassles of limited dealers, poor service, parts delays, and overall good riding time wasted, you don't compare very well.

Try owning anything Italian. I love 'em, but the points you bring up are magnified with some other brands. . .