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Thread: Like the new bikes? Thoughts on BMW's vision.

  1. #46
    Honey Badger Semper_Fi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by astrin View Post
    For sure, but is it significantly different from the 1200 cc model? That's my comment, that the increase to 1300 cc is a bit silly. The K1200GT was already a majorly kick-ass bike!
    Don't know in the showroom i had both choices - went with the shiny new one

    Quote Originally Posted by astrin View Post
    As for turn signals, it would really be nice if BMW gave you the option to have standard or BMW style switches on all their bikes. I'd certainly opt for the BMW style switches. But I also think a lot of folks that come over from other models would prefer the standard switch, and that's perfectly fine. It's a fairly important little piece of ergonomics that should be the rider's decision.
    That is a great idea - I would have stuck with the BMW ones, more natural response, did relearn the "new" style, in then end though it becomes muscle memory, but if the option was there.............
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  2. #47
    Focused kbasa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Semper_Fi View Post
    Don't know in the showroom i had both choices - went with the shiny new one



    That is a great idea - I would have stuck with the BMW ones, more natural response, did relearn the "new" style, in then end though it becomes muscle memory, but if the option was there.............


    I switch back and forth between the VFR (conventional switches) the R100 (conventional switches), the R60/2 (no switches - use your arm) and the R12RT and GS without a problem.

    I can't say one is better than the other at all. They're just different.
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  3. #48
    BMW MOA co-founder bmwdean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KBasa View Post


    I switch back and forth between the VFR (conventional switches) the R100 (conventional switches), the R60/2 (no switches - use your arm) and the R12RT and GS without a problem.
    The slash-2s all can be readily equipped with Hella bar-end signals. The signal switch is in the lower left corner of the photo below: lift up for left signal; press down for right signal. No problem. And I also like the R1200RT switch arrangement.



    However, I still recommend using hand signals for visibility to motorists.
    Last edited by bmwdean; 09-06-2009 at 12:17 AM.
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  4. #49
    not so retired henzilla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by astrin View Post
    For sure, but is it significantly different from the 1200 cc model? That's my comment, that the increase to 1300 cc is a bit silly. The K1200GT was already a majorly kick-ass bike!

    As for turn signals, it would really be nice if BMW gave you the option to have standard or BMW style switches on all their bikes. I'd certainly opt for the BMW style switches. But I also think a lot of folks that come over from other models would prefer the standard switch, and that's perfectly fine. It's a fairly important little piece of ergonomics that should be the rider's decision.
    The Wedge K bikes were in their first generation and who knows why they went up a few cc's...my guess is with the Asian bikes tweaking theirs,think Hyabusa's 1300 and Kawa's ZX-14 , it was an effort to catch the eye of those markets.The GT just benefitted from that engine package when it made the scene after the R's and S's. I am not sure about the GT, but the S was redesigned from a chassis standpoint and some handling issues were adressed in this latest generation...I get the adrenalin rush with the K12S in our stable...not sure I could get any more freaked out going say... another 20MPH Not that I have ever gone over the posted limit... There are some who think 50HP was plenty and why did BMW ever go over that

    The turn signals are no big deal to me...I swap bikes enough to re-learn each one after a few turns. As far as an option for one or the other...more parts to stock and deal with two different designs seems too much for such a small to me issue. I still flap my arms as well in traffic! And honk at people on occasion
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  5. #50
    Focused kbasa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmwdean View Post
    The slash-2s all can be readily equipped with Hella bar-end signals. The signal switch is in the lower left corner of the photo below. No problem. And I also like the R1200RT switch arrangement.



    However, I still recommend using hand signals for visibility to motorists.
    I've got the switch, but need to drill the bars before I can run the wires to the turn signals. I've got the original Hellas that came with the bike. The flasher unit and harness are all installed, but the leads to the turn signal units are clipped.

    While I've got the bars off, I might as well paint the switchgear so it's shiny right?
    Which means I should probably paint the headlight shell since I'll have the bars out of the way already.
    Which means I might as well send the toolbox cover and the rear fender out to get painted.

    One more thing to do, right?
    Dave Swider
    Marin County, CA

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  6. #51
    Registered User 36654's Avatar
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    Change is good, but weight and height are bad

    Hello,

    The new bikes look good and have all the "cutting edge" bells and whistles. However, they're the size of freaking Hummers. Whatever happened to the BMW design philosophy of nimble, reliable and a low center of gravity.

    The pictures of a GS12xx going off-road reminds me of an M1A1 tank. It can be done, but why?

  7. #52
    Focused kbasa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 36654 View Post
    Hello,

    The new bikes look good and have all the "cutting edge" bells and whistles. However, they're the size of freaking Hummers. Whatever happened to the BMW design philosophy of nimble, reliable and a low center of gravity.

    The pictures of a GS12xx going off-road reminds me of an M1A1 tank. It can be done, but why?


    My RT weighs in more than a hundred pounds less than a comparable FJR, Concours or ST1300.

    We ride on our old bikes together and while they're wonderful, it's nice to have all that cutting edge stuff. I can haul the RT down from pretty high speeds while loaded up with wife and gear with a single finger. That's a big plus, in my opinion.

    Dave Swider
    Marin County, CA

    Some bikes. Some with motors, some without.

  8. #53
    shire2000
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    There is nothing wrong with modern technology on the new bikes (if you like that sort of thing). I just feel that BMW has decided, in it's infinite wisdom, to go after a very small part of the market. They have priced themselves so high that the average Joe cannot afford them. I am talking about "Total Cost of Ownership". Not just the initial purchase price. The new bikes are more expensive than comparative bikes from other manufacturers. Then, if you don't have a dealer close by you have to factor in the added expense of getting to and from that dealer for service of any kind. On top of that, at least near where I live, the dealerships charge a premium shop rate compared to other brands. Then, on top of those obvious expenses, they do not seem to stand behind the bikes as well as they used to. Let's not bring up the recently failed differentials.

    Now that may be all well and good for an elite group of people. Unfortunately, that is going to limit the amount of bikes they will sell. Their market share cannot grow substantially, which will impede the growth of their profits, which will require them to increase prices even further. It seems to me that BMW does not really want to compete in the market place. They remind me of the old tales of walking into a Bentley or Rolls Royce emporium where they say, "if you have to ask the price then you can't afford to buy". Sorry, but in this day and age, that is no longer an acceptible method of marketing. You have to be competitive or you will fail.

    If BMW really wanted to compete in the market place they would look at what is happening in other parts of the market. There is nothing wrong with offering a premium high quality bike for a good but fair price. They should be looking at the total market and using it to their advantage.

    Offer something to the beginning riders that they can develope brand loyalty on. Don't tell me about the 450GS, not everyone wants to start on a $10,000Cdn dual purpose bike. Get the price down to something the average 16-21 year old can afford. You get them hooked young and they will stay loyal to the brand.

    Offer something in the way of a modern retro style for those that grew up with the old /5, /6 & /7 style bikes. Many other brands are marketing directly to that segment, which is the Baby Boomers who have the largest amount of disposable income. Why do you think there are so many of us that will spend huge money to rebuild and keep our old airheads running?

    No, I think that BMW has lost their way in the marketing department. They are overpriced, don't offer any reason for loyalty to brand, don't stand behind the limited dealer network they do have and appear to have no intention of increasing it.

  9. #54
    seniorasi
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    Quote Originally Posted by shire2000 View Post
    There is nothing wrong with modern technology on the new bikes (if you like that sort of thing). I just feel that BMW has decided, in it's infinite wisdom, to go after a very small part of the market. They have priced themselves so high that the average Joe cannot afford them. I am talking about "Total Cost of Ownership". Not just the initial purchase price. The new bikes are more expensive than comparative bikes from other manufacturers. Then, if you don't have a dealer close by you have to factor in the added expense of getting to and from that dealer for service of any kind. On top of that, at least near where I live, the dealerships charge a premium shop rate compared to other brands. Then, on top of those obvious expenses, they do not seem to stand behind the bikes as well as they used to. Let's not bring up the recently failed differentials.

    Now that may be all well and good for an elite group of people. Unfortunately, that is going to limit the amount of bikes they will sell. Their market share cannot grow substantially, which will impede the growth of their profits, which will require them to increase prices even further. It seems to me that BMW does not really want to compete in the market place. They remind me of the old tales of walking into a Bentley or Rolls Royce emporium where they say, "if you have to ask the price then you can't afford to buy". Sorry, but in this day and age, that is no longer an acceptible method of marketing. You have to be competitive or you will fail.

    If BMW really wanted to compete in the market place they would look at what is happening in other parts of the market. There is nothing wrong with offering a premium high quality bike for a good but fair price. They should be looking at the total market and using it to their advantage.

    Offer something to the beginning riders that they can develope brand loyalty on. Don't tell me about the 450GS, not everyone wants to start on a $10,000Cdn dual purpose bike. Get the price down to something the average 16-21 year old can afford. You get them hooked young and they will stay loyal to the brand.

    Offer something in the way of a modern retro style for those that grew up with the old /5, /6 & /7 style bikes. Many other brands are marketing directly to that segment, which is the Baby Boomers who have the largest amount of disposable income. Why do you think there are so many of us that will spend huge money to rebuild and keep our old airheads running?

    No, I think that BMW has lost their way in the marketing department. They are overpriced, don't offer any reason for loyalty to brand, don't stand behind the limited dealer network they do have and appear to have no intention of increasing it.
    Dave, I agree with your evaluation of the BMW price structure and the assessment of the mechanical problems with the final drive. ( I think that is what you are referencing. Differential, in mechanical terms, allows two wheels to turn at different speeds, hence the term "differential". )

    The final drive problem is the only reason I'm not riding a new GSA. I've been to the dealer 3 times in the last two (2) months to look at them. What a beautiful machine. But when I get there and look at the final drive and know I'm in for a $4,000.00 bill somewhere down the line, my gut feeling is no way! The flip side is I love my piece of crap airhead. It has been really abused by the PO'S and still starts and runs every time I get on it to ride. There is not a single exterior part that has not suffered trauma in one form or another and it is really not worth restoring, but for a rider you don't have to fret about not ever washing it does the trick for me. I've owned it since March and haven't washed it yet.

  10. #55
    shire2000
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    Airheads are just like that. They keep on going. Sure, there are some mechanical issues that one has to contend with as they age, but that is with anything that is mechanical (or otherwise). Plus, on most airheads you don't have to take an hour or more to remove a bunch of tupperware to find the engine.

    People complain about valve recession, tranny circlips and many other little problems, but in reality, those things tend to be considered standard maintenance issues by those that choose to ride them. Take care of what is there until it needs fixing. On the other hand, buy a new GSA and you had better have an extra $4000 set aside for the final drive rebuild that you know will happen sooner than later.

    Differential or Final Drive? Maybe I should not use them meaning the same thing. I know that technically one is for any sort of drive system while the other is considered for driving 2 wheels at different speeds. But then you get into things like limited slip, locked rear ends, etc. Suffice it to say that I meant the final drive.

    My current ride, being an old airhead as well, has many "battle scars" that I have no intention of repairing. Maybe one day I will get around to a full "restoration" and sand and paint it all. But right now, I prefer to ride. So I ensure that it is mechanically safe and sound, and that nothing is rattling or about to fall off.

    3 more months and it will be time for it's yearly bath and general cleanup.

  11. #56
    JAMESDUNN
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    Quote Originally Posted by shire2000 View Post
    Airheads are just like that. They keep on going. Sure, there are some mechanical issues that one has to contend with as they age, but that is with anything that is mechanical (or otherwise). Plus, on most airheads you don't have to take an hour or more to remove a bunch of tupperware to find the engine.

    People complain about valve recession, tranny circlips and many other little problems, but in reality, those things tend to be considered standard maintenance issues by those that choose to ride them. Take care of what is there until it needs fixing. On the other hand, buy a new GSA and you had better have an extra $4000 set aside for the final drive rebuild that you know will happen sooner than later.

    Differential or Final Drive? Maybe I should not use them meaning the same thing. I know that technically one is for any sort of drive system while the other is considered for driving 2 wheels at different speeds. But then you get into things like limited slip, locked rear ends, etc. Suffice it to say that I meant the final drive.

    My current ride, being an old airhead as well, has many "battle scars" that I have no intention of repairing. Maybe one day I will get around to a full "restoration" and sand and paint it all. But right now, I prefer to ride. So I ensure that it is mechanically safe and sound, and that nothing is rattling or about to fall off.

    3 more months and it will be time for it's yearly bath and general cleanup.
    Dave, a lot of folk use differential to describe the final drive. I knew what you meant when I read your post. Hey! Are you sure there is a BMW under all that dirt? I wash mine more often than you, but not a lot more often! Airheads are very reliable, and yes, I know some argue otherwise, but frequently they are bought without proper maintenance. Then the new but disgruntled owner "sounds off". On bikes that have been maintained it is a different story. If I ever sell my present airhead, the new purchaser will get a "coast to coast" motorsickle!

  12. #57
    shire2000
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    Well, with the hot dry spring and summer we have had here, the major issue is the bugs all over the front of the bike. I am pretty certain that it is still an airhead I sit on as there are these 2 big obstructions in front of my feet and I don't remember running over anything big enough to stay there and petrify. I think the biggest thing I hit was some June bugs, thank gawd for the fairing, windshield and the full face helmet. Those things hurt and leave a welt!!!

  13. #58
    seniorasi
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    Quote Originally Posted by shire2000 View Post
    Well, with the hot dry spring and summer we have had here, the major issue is the bugs all over the front of the bike. I am pretty certain that it is still an airhead I sit on as there are these 2 big obstructions in front of my feet and I don't remember running over anything big enough to stay there and petrify. I think the biggest thing I hit was some June bugs, thank gawd for the fairing, windshield and the full face helmet. Those things hurt and leave a welt!!!
    I heard you guys got mosquitos as big as June bugs up there in Canada...probably want to watch out for them too eh? :-)

  14. #59
    What, me worry? GILLY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 36654 View Post
    The pictures of a GS12xx going off-road reminds me of an M1A1 tank. It can be done, but why?
    Because sometimes the enemy isn't ON the road???

    Gilly
    87 K75S, bought new, now sold
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  15. #60
    seniorasi
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    Quote Originally Posted by gilly View Post
    because sometimes the enemy isn't on the road???

    gilly
    +1! :-)

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