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Thread: VR Lens shots Hand Held: How slow can you go?

  1. #1
    rocketman
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    VR Lens shots Hand Held: How slow can you go?

    Since there was a discussion recently about VR (Vibration Reduction) lens I thought I would try to take some photos using my 70-300 Nikor VR lens in low light early AM hand held and then some with full light to illustrate the capabilities of the VR system. The first four were taken just as the sun was coming up and the shutter speeds were 1/10, 1/30, 1/40 and 1/50. Lens wide open at either 5.0 and 5.6 depending on zoom level, all at ASO of 125. While there is some loss of sharpness compared to the three shot later in full light following the first four not bad for hand held. IÔÇÖll try for some next week with my 70-300 without VR but otherwise similar lens in the same conditions and then maybe rearrange the sequence to show a one on one comparison.



    Note in the following one the effect that the slow shutter speed has on the water cascading down around the fountain...







    These were taken at mid-day speed set at 320 f4.5 ASO 125 and EV at 0



    A crop of the above



    And another close up



    And a couple of moon shots the same morning and time as the first four just for fun, again hand held,

    speed 320, f4.5 ASO125 EV -1.00 zoom 85 for the first



    And 320, f5.6 ASO 125, -.67 EV zoom at 230



    I used the ÔÇôEV to help get some detail in the moon, shoot to bright and you lose that nice detail, also when its lower in the sky you get a better shot, even though you lose something due to haze, which also can help improve the contrast by softening the brightness of a full moon, so its both good and bad. A better way would be to use a filter with the moon higher up which I still need to try. The trick with shooting the moon (yeah yeah I know!) is to remember that it is a sun-lit object.

    So, any one else up for trying a series illustrating some aspect of different types of lens, settings, DOF, same shot with different lenses or cameras ( say a P&S and DSLR) etc?

    Tell us what and why, good points and bad, as you share your shots.

    RM

  2. #2
    Registered User torags's Avatar
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    While VR is good for slow moving subjects, it isn't when shooting fast subjects on continuous fps.

    I shut it off to catch horse muscle definition to free my burst





    The faster the shutter speed the less you need VR
    Rags
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  3. #3
    SNC1923
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    1/15 @ 135mm equivalent, 3 stops below recommended minimum shutter speed.



    1/13 @ 38mm equivalent, at a very noisy 3200 ISO.



    1/8 @ 28mm equivalent.

    Compare these, however, to this 13 second exposure on a tripod:


  4. #4
    Registered User RINTY's Avatar
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    how slow

    That's interesting, Tom; I never thought it was possible to hand hold below about 1 / 25th or so. But I've never tried it with digital and the new lenses.

    Great shots, too!

    Rinty

  5. #5
    Registered User torags's Avatar
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    Great long exposure Bakersfield shot Tom. Do you leave the VR on, on the tripod? Some versions recommend not to.

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  6. #6
    bmdubyou
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    I find that with my 18-200VR if the subject is moving you still get a blurred image. I almost think I like my old 2.8 lenses better sometimes. I just like the range of this little lens.

  7. #7
    SNC1923
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    Quote Originally Posted by rinty View Post
    That's interesting, Tom; I never thought it was possible to hand hold below about 1 / 25th or so. But I've never tried it with digital and the new lenses.

    Great shots, too!

    Rinty
    Quote Originally Posted by torags View Post
    Great long exposure Bakersfield shot Tom. Do you leave the VR on, on the tripod? Some versions recommend not to.

    Rags
    Thanks!

    VR and IS make it possible to handhold exposure that were impossible before; however, it isn't perfect or foolproof. Here's a good rule of thumb:

    You can handhold a shot at no lower a shutter speed than the inverse of the focal length of the lens. For example, with a

    • 100mm lens, you should handhold no lower than 1/125 sec
    • A 50mm, no lower than 1/30 sec
    • 70-200 at 200mm, no lower than 1/250.


    The latest generation of VR (vibration reduction) and IS (image stabilization) provides for about 3 stops of reduced speed. So, using the examples above:

    • 100mm lens WITH IS or VR, you should handhold no lower than 1/15 sec
    • A 50mm, WITH IS or VR, no lower than 1/4 sec
    • 70-200 at 200mm, WITH IS or VR, no lower than 1/30.


    The lenses are still subject to how much you move. You've got to hold them steady. They'll help you, but they won't perform magic (although it seems like magic to me!).

    In answer to the tripod question, if you're on a tripod, you should definitely turn the IS or VR off. You don't need it and it's eating battery power. The long exposure above was taken with my 10-22, a non-IS lens. My 70-200 is actually intuitive: it senses when it's on a tripod and actually shuts itself off.

    Quote Originally Posted by mcclimans84rt View Post
    I find that with my 18-200VR if the subject is moving you still get a blurred image. I almost think I like my old 2.8 lenses better sometimes. I just like the range of this little lens.
    This is a common misunderstanding. VR and IS have nothing to do with freezing a moving subject. That's ALL shutter speed. The VR and IS functions prevent the LENS from moving, therefore reducing motion blur, the blurring of the entire image which results from camera/lens movement at lower shutter speeds. If I am shooting a scene, say a motorcycle racing past, at a low shutter speed, the VR or IS will freeze major camera/lens movement, resulting in a sharp background. The subject, the moving motorcyclist, would still be blurred, due to the low shutter speed.

    This isn't a perfect example, but it should give you the idea:



    The background is sharp and clear because the camera/lens didn't move in my hands; however, the roller coaster is blurred because the shutter was only set to 1/100. Get it?

  8. #8
    Registered User torags's Avatar
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    Good example Tom

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  9. #9
    rocketman
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    Quote Originally Posted by SNC1923 View Post
    Thanks!

    VR and IS make it possible to handhold exposure that were impossible before; however, it isn't perfect or foolproof. Here's a good rule of thumb:

    You can handhold a shot at no lower a shutter speed than the inverse of the focal length of the lens. For example, with a

    • 100mm lens, you should handhold no lower than 1/125 sec
    • A 50mm, no lower than 1/30 sec
    • 70-200 at 200mm, no lower than 1/250.


    The latest generation of VR (vibration reduction) and IS (image stabilization) provides for about 3 stops of reduced speed. So, using the examples above:

    • 100mm lens WITH IS or VR, you should handhold no lower than 1/15 sec
    • A 50mm, WITH IS or VR, no lower than 1/4 sec
    • 70-200 at 200mm, WITH IS or VR, no lower than 1/30.


    The lenses are still subject to how much you move. You've got to hold them steady. They'll help you, but they won't perform magic (although it seems like magic to me!).

    In answer to the tripod question, if you're on a tripod, you should definitely turn the IS or VR off. You don't need it and it's eating battery power. The long exposure above was taken with my 10-22, a non-IS lens. My 70-200 is actually intuitive: it senses when it's on a tripod and actually shuts itself off.



    This is a common misunderstanding. VR and IS have nothing to do with freezing a moving subject. That's ALL shutter speed. The VR and IS functions prevent the LENS from moving, therefore reducing motion blur, the blurring of the entire image which results from camera/lens movement at lower shutter speeds. If I am shooting a scene, say a motorcycle racing past, at a low shutter speed, the VR or IS will freeze major camera/lens movement, resulting in a sharp background. The subject, the moving motorcyclist, would still be blurred, due to the low shutter speed.

    This isn't a perfect example, but it should give you the idea:



    The background is sharp and clear because the camera/lens didn't move in my hands; however, the roller coaster is blurred because the shutter was only set to 1/100. Get it?
    Nicely put indeed, Tom.

    here again is another example on the question of subject motion as apposed to lens motion, from my original series.

    Note in the following one the effect that the slow shutter speed has on the water cascading down around the fountain...but the water is fairly sharp.



    RM

  10. #10
    bmdubyou
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    ahh, yes...I see what you mean! Good pic example! thanks

  11. #11
    SNC1923
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcclimans84rt View Post
    ahh, yes...I see what you mean! Good pic example! thanks
    Any time--my pleasure.

  12. #12
    Registered User empeg9000's Avatar
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    Cool 18-200VR all hand held

    I shot all of these hand held this past summer during F1 weekend. They are all unaltered.
    ISO: 220
    Exposure: 1/5 sec
    Aperture: f/3.5
    Focal Length: 18mm
    Flash Used: No


    ISO: 1600
    Exposure: 1/13 sec
    Aperture: f/5.6
    Focal Length: 150mm
    Flash Used: No


    This one is a smidge blurry
    ISO: 360
    Exposure: 1/6 sec
    Aperture: f/4.5
    Focal Length: 38mm
    Flash Used: No


    ISO: 360
    Exposure: 1/10 sec
    Aperture: f/3.5
    Focal Length: 18mm
    Flash Used: No
    MOA#125237
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  13. #13
    bmdubyou
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    wow....neat buildings! The architectural detail you captured is awesome! where were you again??

  14. #14
    Registered User empeg9000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcclimans84rt View Post
    wow....neat buildings! The architectural detail you captured is awesome! where were you again??
    It was in Montreal this past June during the F1 weekend.
    MOA#125237
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  15. #15
    bmdubyou
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    Quote Originally Posted by empeg9000 View Post
    It was in Montreal this past June during the F1 weekend.
    Very cool! you sure get around! By the way...great website!

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